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How long did it take for you guys to become winners?

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WhooFleuryScores

11-17-2005, 03:46 AM Post subject: How long did it take for you guys to become winners?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Massachusetts

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As everyone knows despite some setbacks in my progress;I haven't given up on the game or myself yet.That being said,I wanted to ask some of the people here who have managed to establish themselves as winners be it whatever game,level,or form of poker they play(i.e. cash games,tourneys,hold em,omaha,etc).How long did it take for you guys to finally break that mark and become consistent winners?And what types of dowswings did you/do you still experience?

I have one friend(who actually introduced me to online play) who has a relative/friend who also plays online.I managed to talk to him for a bit while he was single tabling 6-max PL2000 Omaha Hi/Lo.He works a solid paying job and is reasonably happy with his life.He said when he first started he lost $30,000 experimenting with NL2000,80/160,PL2000 Omaha Hi,PL2000 Omaha Hi/Lo, 80/160 Stud Hi,and 80/160 Stud Hi/Lo.It was suffice to say interesting he said.

He said during that time he learned alot about the game as well as himself.His wife while concerned supported him,and his kids believed in him.After a year he won it all back and today(or at least that day I spoke to him this summer) he stood $10,000 over(which means he won $40,000 in that span along with the usual Party,Empire,and other misc reload bonuses).He said he enjoys nothing more then sitting down after a hard day's work and opening up some Party skin tables.Whenever the Party commercials air on TV he gets a kick when the 'Party Poker" voice hits and he feels a high come over him.He said this while he scooped another monster pot at the table he had open while he talked.

Any feedback is welcome.

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Laeelin

11-17-2005, 04:02 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,137

Learning to be profitable should cost very very little.

It's simple.

You start at $2NL

Move up as you earn enough money to reach the next level.

Dont pay $30,000 for a lesson you can get for $30

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

aokrongly

11-17-2005, 05:20 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Posts: 863

I don't know what to say about your story. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but hey he's up, right? I wouldn't emulate him, though. If you can't win consistently small, then you can't win consistently big. You're going to get alot of answers to your question about how long. Understand that there are alot of ways to measure that. I, personally, played years of small losses. Typical "break even" poker where I didn't really break even but played so few hands it felt that way.

Now I can play 20,000 -30,000 hands/month and I know I'll win. How much is always a guess. But I know I'll win.

However, that comes from alot of things:
1. I put together a game I can depend on. That's good.
2. I developed the discipline to play that game as close to 100% of the time as I can.
3. I don't throw good money after bad (BR management? Some who know my BR management would argue, so let's say Money management.)
4. I have psychological tools that keep me from totally imploding. (like expectation management, relaxation exercises, etc.)

So there's alot to being a long term, consistent winner. The key word is "consistent". If you aren't consistent then nothing else can be.

The good news is all yo uhave to do is dedicate yourself to mastering poker. Take one type of game SnG, ring, limit, whatever. And take your time. learn what works and what doesn't, record your results. Become a Scientist about poker. Follow PROCEDURES measure RESULTS know that it takes a long time.

Think about cards, about money, about your mental state, about observation, about deception, about everything you can think of and read about. And know that if you SIMPLY DO THAT over a long CONSISTENT period of time you can't help but be a winning player.

If, on the other hand, you get bored, flip flop flap around from game to game, follow the latest trick, spend more time thinking about your BR than about cards, get arrogant everytime you have a big win and depressed everytime you lose, create unrealistic expectations, etc. Then you'll just be another frustrated guy who "plays poker". "yea I play poker"

I think you can do good. You're in the right place and asking the right questions. Just a little patience problem. Tell youself that time = money. The more time it takes, the more time you put into it the more money you'll make over your lifetime. The faster you do it now, the quicker you flame out. So be patient and you'll never flame out.

WhooFleuryScores

11-20-2005, 06:01 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Massachusetts

Posts: 918

Thanks guys.I've def learned alot.

SuperDave9x19

11-21-2005, 07:06 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Delaware USA

Posts: 114

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I am still working on it. Not a winner yet.

I have issues with getting bored, not realizing it and playing worse starting hands. It's weird. When I keep my cool I can grind out a consistent win. At some point i drop discipline. I dunno how else to describe it but STOOPID.

Last time i dropped from $200 (on $50 BR start) to $12 in one bad nite, I made it back to $160 in a 4 night grind starting in .01/.02 ring and slowly progressing to .05/.10 after i hit $80.

I can do it, but at some point discipline slips. I need to recognize my stupididty and change it or just stop for nite.

Been playing money poker for 34 years and decided in 2002 to try that TX Holdem game on TV. Then found Pokerstars in Summer 2005. Still not an overall winner but i am on a good trend and nearly there.

drdeutsch

11-21-2005, 09:31 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 60

Same here. I've only logged 2k hands of 2$NL, and I plan on doing that for at least 10k hands, if not more, until I can consistently win money.

I also play the 45-person 5.50 SNGs on stars, and I can usually win enough there to bankroll my ring games and other SNGs... I've been playing on winnings for weeks, and that feels pretty good, but I'm still break even or even losing money on ring games, so I'll keep it up for now.

Just have patience... you'll get better with more experience and study.

mouteut

11-21-2005, 10:12 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 152

Took me 4 months. Actually i was already a "winner" when i just started, going from 20$ to 120$(i've already practiced in play/money and i've read FTR), however i wasn't using Rilla's bankroll management rules and i would end up loosing my deposits all the time going to way too high stakes.

My fourth deposit of 20$ went to 800$ and i then started to use bankroll and its now at 2K.

The best advice i can give you is using those rules RIGHT NOW instead of learning the hard way.

As drdeustch said, 1$ sng are extremely soft and its a great way to start out.

aokrongly

11-23-2005, 05:27 AM

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This is a good thread. I like it. I want to add more. I don't recognize the names so let me say I went from $150 to about $30,000 in about 7 months with very little back peddling. Let me tell you how. I see a common theme of winning and then backing up - or losing it all.

Here's the answer for you in one sentence - When you do that you are playing for emotional reward, not monetary results.

If you already understand it then that sentence is enough, but if you already understand it then you wouldn't do it. So let me put some meat on the bones.

When we first start playing poker we do so because we like it, it makes us FEEL GOOD. As we get better we start playing smarter and winning money and realize that our decsions make us money, and we like that. So we play that way. But when we get bored, we aren't INTELLECTUALLY bored, we are EMOTIONALLY BORED. We want to FEEL GOOD. You stop playing poker for money and start playing to FEEL GOOD. And actually, for most players they were always playing to FEEL GOOD but it felt good for the first hour to play smart - BECAUSE THEY REMEMBER LAST TIME THEY TILTED OUT AND THEY DON'T WANT TO FEEL BAD LIKE THAT AGAIN. So they play smart.

But after a while the "i'm scared to feel bad" feeling is overtaken by "I want to feel good and this doesn't feel good enough fast enough, so I'm going to turn on my feel-gooder and start playing faster and looser than my skills allow. That will FEEL GOOD!" And they do it.

SOOOOO, the root problem isn't discipline, skill or boredom. The root problem is YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM. You have to make a decision about WHY YOU PLAY POKER. I don't mean you "think about it". I mean you make a LIFE CHANGING FUTURE DEFINING "I saw the light, come to Jesus" DECISION ABOUT WHY YOU PLAY POKER. Do you play to feel good (a perfectly good reason to play poker, not everyone has to win all the time)? Or do you play to MAKE MONEY?

If you Really, Literally play to make money, then you CLOCK IN, do your job and CLOCK OUT. If you play it to feel good then you get to do whatever you want. If winning maeks you feel good then that's a positive side effect. But it doesn't change your DECISION. And when you don't feel good you still do your JOB.

I hope that helps. You aren't losing because you're bored, you're losing because you never decided to play poker for money.

Rondavu

11-23-2005, 03:44 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

I was profitable within 1 month. I've always been a consistent winner because I don't allow my emotions to control my clicky finger. I lay down tough hands to tight opponents, and put my money in when it's LOGICAL to do so. Some people are built to think in a poker world. Some people are emotional rollercoasters who would need psychological counseling before sitting in at 100NL if you know what I mean. Learn to detach and make sound decisions. Talk to yourself while you play. Tell yourself why you're doing something. Justify each decision. That's what wins. Well, that and the whole universe that opens up once you really start to manipulate the game. That's for later though.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Rabid Dog

11-23-2005, 05:25 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 574

Very good thread, nice info.

Cocco_Bill

11-23-2005, 06:42 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

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I had a very lucky first month on a very fishy site.
I was a terrible player back then.

STIdrivr

11-23-2005, 07:12 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Southern california

Posts: 580

i learned on the play money tables on pokerstars so when i started to play for real money i started out winning consistantly and still do.

Irisheyes

11-23-2005, 07:26 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: over there

Posts: 3,708

I spent about 3 months playing breakeven poker till I learned what it ment to TAGG properly and got to grips with some "Greatest player in the world syndrome" that was sending me on a never ending newbie circle of death. Ever since then my play is steadily getting better and better.

r8ed

11-23-2005, 08:50 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Once I read AOK posts in this thread and actually applied what he says. Let me repeat: Actually applied what he says. That was on September 1st. I've made over $700 (not including bonuses) since then playing 25NL. I was losing before this. I still make tons of mistakes, but I try to re-evaluate things periodically and learn to play better. My last 6 sessions have all been negative. I'm not really worried because I'm playing pretty much the same way I did when I had 6 up sessions in a row. That's why bankroll is very important to me as well. I have over 30 max buyins at 25NL. Dropping several buyins in a week is nothing if you know you are playing correctly.

No matter how mundane, read and follow AOK's posts.

TanO

11-24-2005, 11:32 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: UK

Posts: 315

I took me 5 months to learn how to be a winning player 'technically' then it took me a further 9 months to learn from my hideous mistakes that bankroll management was more important than making good decisions.
BR Management is THE most important thing in Poker, get that right and the rest will come along naturally in time.

75% of online poker players believe they are better than 75% of the other online poker players

My piece of cyberspace real estate : http://ornatepush.blogspot.com

r8ed

11-25-2005, 05:23 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

That last sentence came off wrong. I meant no matter how mundane a task he tells you to do is, still do it. Like writing "I will never <insert bad habit here>" 100 times.

I played about 5 hours today and made back almost all the losses from my down sessions. I played the exact same way - maybe a little smarter. The cards just fell better.

Bankroll is important. If I only had $200 and dropped $100, I would be very worried and probably play either too weak or too aggressive.

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