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How do you play AKs

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poker2006

03-25-2005, 08:27 AM Post subject: How do you play AKs

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 20

I was looking at my PokerTracker stats, and one of the hands I lost with most is surprisingly AKs. I figured out some of the problems im my game, but I wanted to ask how other people play this so it's profitable.

What I noticed is that most of the pots I won were smaller, and the ones I lost were larger. Figures because if an A or K hits and I bet, people will tend to fold. I get in trouble when I miss the flop of course.

I'll explain the two cases I had most problems with to see what your oppinion is:

*** 1. PartyPoker $25 NL. Raise $1.5-$2 with AKs, get 2 callers.
Flop misses me, small cards with maybe a 7 or 8. I bet about half the pot $3, one of the two players raises to $10 and I fold, losing $5.

I have a feeling some people will assume you always raise Ahigh, and if it's a small flop they try to bluff... Do you usually find it's a bluff, what do you do against a raise ??

*** 2. PartyPoker $25 NL. Raise $1.5-$2 wih AKs, get 1-2 callers.
Flop misses me, small cards, but I get two cards of my suit. I bet about $3 half the pot, one other player raises to $6, I call to draw to a flush. No flush card, I check, other player bets about $6, maybe I call it upset, miss the river where I fold if there's a bet, losing $8-$15.

Thoughts on what I could do better ? Maybe I should bet out less or check when I have a draw and I want to stay in the hand ? Should I call less if I'm raised on the draw? Usually I am getting about 4:1 odds to call the raise, but I didn't get the flush. It looks like I only made a flush 2 of over 80 AKs hands, and not much money in them.

Weird, AKo is a profitable hand for me. True I had it about 300 times, maybe the sample is better...

Let me know how you play this hand, thoughts on what I can do better. The more ideas the better.

--poker2006
My goal is to get better every day. The money will come by itself.

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Fnord

03-25-2005, 09:45 AM Post subject: Re: How do you play AKs

#2 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by poker2006

*** 2. PartyPoker $25 NL. Raise $1.5-$2 wih AKs, get 1-2 callers.
Flop misses me, small cards, but I get two cards of my suit. I bet about $3 half the pot, one other player raises to $6, I call to draw to a flush. No flush card, I check, other player bets about $6, maybe I call it upset, miss the river where I fold if there's a bet, losing $8-$15.

With 2 overs + a flush draw I would seriously consider pushing depending on the board and who raised. Another option is to make it $12 flat and check behind on the turn unimproved.

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poker2006

03-25-2005, 05:57 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 20

Maybe I should try for a while to raise less with AK, and play it more like a drawing hand which it is. Somehow aggressive play on mising AKs backfires. I either don't get called and win a small pot, or get called/raised and loose a big pot.

--poker2006
My goal is to get better every day. The money will come by itself.

Minion

03-25-2005, 08:18 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Houston

Posts: 11

I personally don't like AK that much because it seems to get me in big trouble.

Example :
Last night $10 buy in 8 players at the table.
I have AKs (spades).
Flop: 9h, jd, qc
I raise $2, and have one caller
Turn: 2c
I raise $2, get re-raised $5.. I fold

Well turns out that my opponent has TT and the rest of my AK outs were taken by the playes at the table. I always find that when I am delt AK at big tables that my outs are always gone.

Now, when I am playing short handed that is a diffrent story. AK pays off for me because not all my outs are taken.

I also fold AK UTG.

.:Minion:.

Demiparadigm

03-25-2005, 10:31 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

I also fold AK UTG.

You're so crazy.

AK is the 5th best hand you can have. Raise.
IF you catch nothing, learn to fold it.
This is a pre flop hand, if you have A high after the flop, play it like A high.

Greedo017

03-27-2005, 04:27 PM

#6 (permalink)

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"With 2 overs + a flush draw I would seriously consider pushing depending on the board and who raised. Another option is to make it $12 flat and check behind on the turn unimproved."

that's an interesting idea. you'd have 9 + 6 so 15 outs, so you're like 60% to win. i don't know how i never realized this, thank you

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

danhole12

03-28-2005, 09:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo017

you'd have 9 + 6 so 15 outs, so you're like 60% to win.

that's assuming that hitting an overcard would be enough to win, which is not always the case.

Greedo017

03-28-2005, 10:32 PM

#8 (permalink)

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true, but a lot of times it is, and you've got 9 outs even if its not.

jmontis

03-28-2005, 10:32 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,296

Doyle brunson's wise advice changed my opinion of getting AKs vs AA/KK.

with AK, you can raise, either hit a monster flop, bluff the pot , or fold, it's that simple.

AA or KK, you have to do some very serious reading and hope that nobody catches a miracle card.

lonnie

03-30-2005, 09:43 AM

#10 (permalink)

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By betting out you can make the flush, hit one of your overs, or....your opp can fold and you take it right there. Tons of ways to win if you are aggressive. If you just check..call, you MUST hit one of your outs to win.

It helps to know whether your opponent is capable of folding in this spot before choosing which course of action to take.

Rondavu

03-31-2005, 08:56 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minion

I also fold AK UTG.

Now I've heard everything. You likely have the best starting hand out of anyone in the pot, and you fold? That's a huge hole in your game.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

evman150

03-31-2005, 10:20 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Victoria BC

Posts: 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minion

Well turns out that my opponent has TT and the rest of my AK outs were taken by the playes at the table. I always find that when I am delt AK at big tables that my outs are always gone.

Now, when I am playing short handed that is a diffrent story. AK pays off for me because not all my outs are taken.

I really do not understand this logic. You have good cards, so they are automatically taken up by the other players? So if you had 46 you'd have a better chance of winning because the fours and sixes haven't been scooped up by the other players? WTF? You really need to think about what you are saying here, because it is positively senseless.

And that last part about folding AK....WTF.

You have some serious holes in your game pal. At least you're going about fixing them which is good I suppose.

ensign_lee

03-31-2005, 11:32 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Actually, there's quite a stir about whether AK is a good hand. I know a person who earns a lot who folds AK EVERY time, because he's convinced it's a money loser.

Why? When you hit that A or K, you're still not golden. A set will now OWN you and it will take you a lot of discipline to lay down TPTK.

When you don't hit that A or K, you're reduced to bluffing. And normally, that means close to a pot sized bet. So let's say the pot is $40. You each put in $20 preflop (assuming one opponent). Now you're going to bet $40 more to try to win that $40, but only $20 of that is NOT originally yours.

So to sum up, you're betting $60 to win $20. And this will not work anywhere near enough times to show you a profit (It will have to work 4 out of 5 times in order for this play to be profitable).

So...yeah. Throughout a bazillion AK's...I am barely up. I think 16 times the blind or something like that. But perhaps I'm lucky. I know I love it when the other guy has AK, because it's easy to trash it.

At any rate, I still can't bring myself to fold AK usually preflop. I'll limp with it from early and raise with it from late, but yeah...the guy I know who always folds AK? He earns about...oh...18 times what I do, so yeah.

a500lbgorilla

03-31-2005, 11:38 PM

#14 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

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Posts: 8,379

AKs and AKo win me .61 and .31 BB per hand.

And that's money in the bank, my friend.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

evman150

04-01-2005, 02:21 AM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Victoria BC

Posts: 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign_lee

When you don't hit that A or K, you're reduced to bluffing. And normally, that means close to a pot sized bet. So let's say the pot is $40. You each put in $20 preflop (assuming one opponent). Now you're going to bet $40 more to try to win that $40, but only $20 of that is NOT originally yours.

So to sum up, you're betting $60 to win $20. And this will not work anywhere near enough times to show you a profit (It will have to work 4 out of 5 times in order for this play to be profitable).

That is bad logic. Money put into the pot is no longer yours.

You are betting $40 to win $40. If the opponent(s) fold more than half the time it is a +EV play.

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