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Les_Worm
Old 05-29-2004, 03:54 AM     Post subject: How do you play this? #1 (permalink)  
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NL Holdem .25/.50 blinds.

Playing in a home game this game this situation came up. How would you play it? You are holding ATs and raise $2 before the flop. You get two callers, one of which is a maniac.

Flop 10 4 8 rainbow.

Player to your left bets $1. You raise to $4. Maniac goes all in. ($24 and all your stack.)

Player to your left folds.

Action is on you. Call or Fold?

I want to know what you guys would do. We discussed this for a while after the play was done. I'll tell you the outcome and what the turn and river were later. Also I'll tell you what the players did.
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Humphrind
Old 05-29-2004, 07:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Well, if the maniac just called the raise, I'd have to assume that he doesn't have a pocket pair.

I would assume that he has 2 pair. Though you have top pair, top kicker.

Though I'd be confident in my hand, I can't justify those pot odds. Since raising isn't an option, I'd chicken out and fold.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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jobupoker
Old 05-29-2004, 07:54 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I think I would have to fold also...

I saw Phil Ivey make sort of the same decision on the WPT. (This is from memory but it was something like this)

Phil had J9o
Flop was 9 6 2 rainbow

Player with AQ went all in. after thinking for a while Phil eventually folded...


(OK so Phil didn't have an A kicker)
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DrNoChance
Old 05-29-2004, 09:23 PM #4 (permalink)  
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This is a tough one. The question is: What will this guy call a pre-flop raise with?

For the average player, two pair doesn't make sense. You wouldn't call a preflop raise with T8s or T4s. You might with JT, QT, or KT though. If the maniac will play any suited garbage and even call raises with it, I'd chicken out for sure (due to the 2 pair threat). Otherwise, it depends just how much of a maniac this guy is. Would he really go all in with top pair and no kicker? Does he go all in on bluffs often?

I'd probably fold unless this guy is known to be really wild.
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Les_Worm
Old 05-30-2004, 02:30 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Does he go all in on bluffs often?
Yes
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fishstick
Old 05-30-2004, 02:34 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
Well, if the maniac just called the raise, I'd have to assume that he doesn't have a pocket pair.
i'm not so sure - i've seen way to many "sort of" maniacs call any pre-flop raise with a pocket pair, and then chase it to the river regardless of the board.

hmmm, i would expect a maniac to maybe reraise pre flop with pocket 88 or TT, but just call with 44.

i'd guess a set of 4's - but we are talking about a maniac. it'll probably turn out to be 72 offsuited! but with a set, why not go for the trap - especially as there's no real straight/flush threat on the board.

also, a maniac could go nuts with AT...

it hurts my brain...
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SpArKy
Old 05-30-2004, 02:41 AM #7 (permalink)  

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I would call... if he had hit trips he wud be more likely to try and trap u...keep calling your bets with ya top pair.

With an overpair going all in is non-sensical, as he can only lose. What i mean is.. if u hit trips u are more than likely beating him, if u have rockets u are more than likely beating him. So with those kinds of cards u have an easy call.

The only issue i would take into consideration is how much this person had won or lost in the evening. Is the size of the pot a pot that he wud just want to take down there and then with his pocket Jacks or queens... and avoid u outdrawing him.

I would personally call because an all-in post flop is mostly a bad play imo, unless u have a premium hand and are against some1 who calls with absolute shite to try and get lucky.

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Les_Worm
Old 06-02-2004, 02:32 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Well here's what went down. I had ATs and raised preflop. Flop comes and I have top pair and top kicker. Maniac goes all in. I call. Well he shows me AA which is really suprising that he would just smooth call my raise. I would definately expect a preflop reraise, espeically from him. He was out of position and could have picked up the pot before the flop. If he reraises me any significant amount then I would have just thrown my hand away. This is a really unusual play for him. I did win all my money back later when he called my all in ( I was holding AK and had top two, he had A8s and had a pair of Aces.) Either way I was thinking about this hand for a while. Thinking back on it I think it was a bad call and I don't think I'd have a problem throwing this hand away if this situation were to ever arise again.
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evilevilmatt
Old 06-02-2004, 05:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I've noticed maniacs almost always play there best with crappy cards and dont know how to play when they have the goods (AA in this case.) Warning bells should have gone off when he called preflop. All the manaics I know would raise it with just about anything. Weak is strong.
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