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montimus
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03-23-2005, 10:43 PM
Post subject: How do you guys play these situations?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 154
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I seem to run across this scenario quite a bit...
Im first to act with 88 so I limp in. The rest of the table also limps. The flop comes 267 rainbow. BB leads out with a small, pot-sized bet. I make a substantial raise(maybe doubling the size of the pot). Get 2 callers. The turn brings, say, a J. No action to me, so I go all in. No one calls.
Typically, with no possible straight or flush on the board, I assume I've got the best hand.
I seem to be about 60/40 in my success on these hands When I lose these hands, it's always to a flopped set or a higher PP. I usually assume that a reraise from a strong player means he's got an overpair or the trips, and a reraise from a weak player indicates he's got the top pair and I've got him licked.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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wow you play that agressive I usually fold
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mimmons775
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 92
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you would fold 88 on the flop of 627?
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"I guess if there wasnt luck involved id win everyone."
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mimmons775
you would fold 88 on the flop of 627?
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Not many turn cards look good when you flop 627.
If I'd have to commit a lot of chips to win the hand on the flop or get it HU, you can make a case for just letting it go.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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fluffysnurgle
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8
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The only time you have the best hand here is if everyone else was playing high cards like AK, and on a flop like this they will fold. You are in trouble against someone with a higher pocket pair, or someone with a lower pocket pair, because they probably hit their set. So essentially what you have here is a semi-bluffing hand where you need to either fold or figure out how to get everyone else to fold.
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Minion
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 11
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Well it depends. If you have 88 and flop comes 627 bet if your called or re-raised think long and hard about your players at the table. A higher PP is always a possibility. Yet if your called by a weak player and you know you have him beat then milk him for his money.
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.:Minion:.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mimmons775
you would fold 88 on the flop of 627?
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Depends on how deep the money is, who driving and if there is a good reason to think someone is wired up big. If betting pot puts me all-in it's probably a pretty good spot to push.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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rilla's right, too many scare cards can come on the turn. If anyone with A-x thinks you're betting on 77 or bluffing, they aren't going anywhere. You could also be dominated by a bigger pair already.
A multiway pot makes this a trouble hand in a trouble situation, heads up though this is a winning hand, but not against multiple opponents.
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studboyjoe
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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You might consider raising hands like this PF when you are first to act to decrease the number of players, it would increase your chances of winning with this hand. With 5 or 6 players in, this hand has little value, IMHO. With a lot of players in, it would be "no set, no bet" for me. With the flop you show, you would have to bet big to make it costly for someone with 2 overcards to see the next card.
That said, I like it a lot heads up. You could lose to a higher pair, but many players with 99, 10 10, etc.
will raise PF. It gets trickier if you had a smaller pair than 88.
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Sharky: I've got good news and bad.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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raise? with 88? No offense, but are you crazy? Especially from early position, which is where this thread seems to think you'd be.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensign_lee
raise? with 88? No offense, but are you crazy? Especially from early position, which is where this thread seems to think you'd be.
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He's not crazy. It depends on the game texture and stack depth.
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montimus
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 154
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In this particular situation, I assumed that since I didn't get reraised on the flop, I had the best hand at that point. While the overcard J came on the turn, I really couldn't put anyone on a jack at that point...I just couldn't figure out a Jx hand that someone could have had to call my flop reraise, so I decided to push on the turn.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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You're not going to get a favorable flop like this for 88 anywhere near enough times to warrant that raise. at least one overcard will usually fall. Now tell me again that it's smart to raise 88?
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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Its perfectly fine to raise at the right times with just about anything. And you dont always have to hit the flop to bet someone off of it - dont wanna get too predictable only betting when you hit the flop.
Just because overcards fall, it doesnt mean your opponent(s) have hit the flop. And even if one of the overcards do match up to opps hand they are still unsure of where theyre at against you. It doesnt cost too much to put out a bet thats big enough to move people off the pot but small enough to allow you to let go of the hand if you get raised back.
So yes, ensign_lee, its smart again to raise 88 
I sometimes even raise AA preflop.
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montimus
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 154
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensign_lee
You're not going to get a favorable flop like this for 88 anywhere near enough times to warrant that raise. at least one overcard will usually fall. Now tell me again that it's smart to raise 88?
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I assume you are still talking about studboyjoe's comment about raising this one preflop, which I didn't do, nor would normally I do from EP with 88 in a 6-handed game.
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studboyjoe
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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My raise comment addresses the "everyone limps" aspect of the hand, which I think devalues his 88 with 5 other players in the pot. Also, a raise PF lowering the number of opponents in the hand in question increases his chance of winning it, and might give him a better idea of where he stands.
Montimus, you didn't mention the stakes, stacks, MTT tourney vs SNG vs Ring game, these are all factors as well. Oh, and the outcome of the hand?
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Sharky: I've got good news and bad.
me: what's the good?
Sharky: we all voted you Most Valuable Player!
me: what's the bad?
Sharky: It was at our weekly poker game!
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by montimus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensign_lee
You're not going to get a favorable flop like this for 88 anywhere near enough times to warrant that raise. at least one overcard will usually fall. Now tell me again that it's smart to raise 88?
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I assume you are still talking about studboyjoe's comment about raising this one preflop, which I didn't do, nor would normally I do from EP with 88 in a 6-handed game. |
I don't know about y'all...but I do not understand the logic of raising in EP with 88...
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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Oh..EP well I probably wouldnt do that either then - my bad. Well maybe against a small number of pushover opponents - then you can raise and isolate and take the pot
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montimus
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 154
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Quote:
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My raise comment addresses the "everyone limps" aspect of the hand, which I think devalues his 88 with 5 other players in the pot. Also, a raise PF lowering the number of opponents in the hand in question increases his chance of winning it, and might give him a better idea of where he stands.
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That's why I made the post-flop reraise...information. With a low board and top pair, a set or higher pair likely would have reraised.
In many cases, in EP(UTG like this hand) I'm not going to play a low PP too strongly preflop. I'm just gonna try to get in cheap and see if I can flop a set or strong draw.
Quote:
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Montimus, you didn't mention the stakes, stacks, MTT tourney vs SNG vs Ring game, these are all factors as well. Oh, and the outcome of the hand?
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I realize that varying table conditions will necessitate different strategies in various instances. I'm just curious as to general strategies for this type of hand.
If you'll check my original post, you'll see that I took down the pot on the turn by pushing.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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I don't quite follow the logic of pushing all-in with 88 after the overcard (J) falls. Doesn't this fall into the "only hand that will call beats you" category? I could see pushing AI on the flop, when it is entirely possible you have the best hand...but after the paint falls, you gotta start having some doubts.
Unless I read the post wrong, in which case, never mind.
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hazelblue
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 76
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You know, I had a similar situation last night with pocket 8s under the gun.
Knowing the table I was at, I should've raised. Why?
Same exact flop, 2 6 7. I make a raise on the flop to see where I was in the hand. Everyone but MP1 folds. MP1 goes all in. He ends up winning the hand with 27o.
I decided to limp, knowing I was at a table where people will ALSO limp with anything.
This is an area of my game I need to work on.
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