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How do you guys handle this kind of feeling

  
 
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AllinLife
Old 08-12-2004, 06:00 PM     Post subject: How do you guys handle this kind of feeling #1 (permalink)  
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the feeling you get when you are dealt KK,
raise, get called A flops, fold to midium raise and seeing the K on turn
"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen
 
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JJgoneMAD
Old 08-12-2004, 06:48 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllinLife
the feeling you get when you are dealt KK,
raise, get called A flops, fold to midium raise and seeing the K on turn
Why would fold to medium raise in that spot? I understand you are put in a tough position, but a reraise should be in order there i think.
You raised preflop, represent the ace yourself. If your opponent calls your reraise, you have to put him on Ace w/whatever or A w/hight kicker and check at the turn. You may get a free peek at the river because of your reraise at the turn. I think you reraise and give your opposition a chance to fold or at least confirm that you may be drawing dead unless a miracle K pops up somewhere along the line.
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Humphrind
Old 08-12-2004, 08:23 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJgoneMAD
Why would fold to medium raise in that spot? I understand you are put in a tough position, but a reraise should be in order there i think.
You raised preflop, represent the ace yourself. If your opponent calls your reraise, you have to put him on Ace w/whatever or A w/hight kicker and check at the turn. You may get a free peek at the river because of your reraise at the turn. I think you reraise and give your opposition a chance to fold or at least confirm that you may be drawing dead unless a miracle K pops up somewhere along the line.
This is becoming more of a question of how to play KK.

If you play KK like you would play JJ or 77, only checking / calling small bets unless you can trip it, than you are missing a lot of value (Oh, I feel like Fnord when I say that.)

If you play hard even after an A comes down, you must not play in $5 - $20 tournaments (I'm sure it happens in higher limit as well) People hold on to Aces. People call all-in with A6, and sometimes win. When you hold KK, and an A comes down, be cautious, but not scared.

Others may represent it, others may have it with a bad kicker, or others may be playing into it, knowing they can beat that pair of Aces. But you have a good hand. Don't fold to any sign of strength, and make sure you show strength yourself.

I don't think it's always a good idea to re-raise to a medium bet. Most of the time that is just wasting money. But if you can afford it, don't fold to a medium bet either. And if you can't afford to call a medium bet, and you're not pot commited to call a medium bet, you should have pushed all-in before the flop.

However, I know what you are talking about allinlife. There have been many pocket pairs that I have paid to see the flop, folded on the flop and would have turned or rivered trips. There have even been a couple of times that I would have floped or turned quads. Most recently, this morning.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1987
I regret it, but I can't do anything about it. I just have to put it in the same category as when I fold 93o and the flop comes 993.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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johnnyawe
Old 08-12-2004, 08:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think I'd rather re-raise or fold as opposed to calling. If you call, then you're setting yourself to be faced with having to call a turn bet, and then what are you going to do? If you re-raise, at least its possible that you'll fold out a bluffer or an A with low kicker.

Still, folding is looking pretty good to me.
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Fnord
Old 08-12-2004, 08:49 PM #5 (permalink)  
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At small stakes with a good amount of money behind you, check/fold to the Ace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Xianti
Old 08-12-2004, 08:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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As Humpty pointed out, this turned into more of a strategy discussion.
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JJgoneMAD
Old 08-12-2004, 09:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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If we are talking about small stakes SnGs, we are talking about a totally different situation. I was asking a very similar question to humph the other day, but my questions were about QQ, JJ, and TT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
People call all-in with A6, and sometimes win
That's the gripe i had about playing QQ, JJ, and TT. That i just didn't see that much value in those when i play 5 to $10 SnGs. Whatever the case though, i'd still reraise as long as i'm not severly shortstacked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNatural
Still, folding is looking pretty good to me.
I'd do that if i was short stacked, but i would never call a raise in that situation whether it'd be ring games or SnG.
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Humphrind
Old 08-12-2004, 09:35 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJgoneMAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNatural
Still, folding is looking pretty good to me.
I'd do that if i was short stacked, but i would never call a raise in that situation whether it'd be ring games or SnG.
If you are short stacked and delt KK. You don't need to know how to play it post flop. You have already gone all-in pre-flop. Go all in, call all in and no regrets if you are cracked by A7o.

Bubble or no bubble. Whether the blinds will take someone else out soon or not, you need to get your chips in when you have a good hand, and unless your opponent is hooked up to a polygraph and tells you he has Aces, you should go all-in.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:05 PM #9 (permalink)  
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JJgoneMAD
Old 08-13-2004, 01:13 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
JJ your new avatar is straight up nasty...LoL
Thank you so much Ripp, i now know my job here is done lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
If you are short stacked and delt KK. You don't need to know how to play it post flop. You have already gone all-in pre-flop. Go all in, call all in and no regrets if you are cracked by A7o.
You are right, for probably most situations when short stacked. But for me, it really depends on the level, the size of the blind. If i have some 3 to 400chips left in front of me at say level 2 or 3, i might fold my KK even if i raised coming into the pot. If i feel that i'm beat, i'll give myself a chance to play more hands as long as the blinds aren't huge. But if my stack can absorb some loss, then yes, i would raise. I wasn't clear when i said i agreed with TheNatural's comment, but i wasn't really thinking of situations when the blinds are gigantic. I mean, i don't think you give up on a SnG or should just go AI holding KK just because you are severely short stacked. To me, it all depends on the blind. Although, i do play the AA like a maniac LOL
But, if you think about it... what the heck do i know LOL. I just started to rebuild my bankroll and i'm talking like i know something heehee
It's all good humph, kick my ass.. i don't know what the heck i'm doing here talking about strategies
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AllinLife
Old 08-13-2004, 04:25 AM #11 (permalink)  
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thanks so much for the tournament tips.

but what would be the smart move when it's a ring game?

when I raised about 3x bb and after flop 4 people call,

after the A flop, one guy puts out a bet that is about 40% of the pot

and another guy calls. I think to my self, one of thems gotta have the

aces and folded.
"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen
 
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michael1123
Old 08-13-2004, 05:32 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Definitely a good fold in that case, AllinLife.

Since it fits here, here's a link to a thread where I posted an obvious fold with KK that I had yesterday, towards the bottom of the thread. http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1965
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AllinLife
Old 08-13-2004, 05:59 AM #13 (permalink)  
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lol I just realized I was on tilt when I wrote this

my question started like "how to get over those 2 outters hit after you fold"

oh well, I guess it's not too bad
"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen
 
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johnnyawe
Old 08-13-2004, 08:47 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllinLife
thanks so much for the tournament tips.

but what would be the smart move when it's a ring game?

when I raised about 3x bb and after flop 4 people call,

after the A flop, one guy puts out a bet that is about 40% of the pot

and another guy calls. I think to my self, one of thems gotta have the

aces and folded.
That is exactly how I would play it.
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