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bigstock2001
Old 11-29-2008, 09:32 AM     Post subject: how to detect bots #1 (permalink)  
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I have been playing .05 alot and i am curious how do you detect bots i have noticed players that are on in the morning and still on through out the day is this a sign that it is a bot. What is the easiest way to detect and beat them according to pt3 i am ahead of the people that i suspect as being a bot thanks for any input on this
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oskar
Old 11-29-2008, 11:24 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I think bots and 24-tabling micro stakes players are not a lot different. Only that the bot doesn't tilt and likely plays even weaker post-flop (if at all).
The way to avoid both is to play 6-max or at full-ring tables with 6 or less players. But you shouldn't be too worried. If you play standard poker, you can beat the game for a good enough rate to move up. Once you hit 25NL the game is getting a lot wilder - but also tougher.

The trick is not to figure out if an opponent is a bot or not. Just take a note of their tendencies - do they call too-much / too-little pre/post? And then start exploiting it either by c-betting more or only c-betting strong hands against them.

I'm pretty sure that some smart programmer has already made a bot for himself that can grind higher stakes profitably, but that should be the exception. The commercial bots that you can find through google are pretty damn stupid.
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spoonitnow
Old 11-29-2008, 01:14 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 You don't have any way to figure out if they are bots, so stop trying. I've been accused of being a bot by a number of people who were using the same "logic" as seen in this thread.

Oh no! They play a lot! They must be a bot! Give me a break. Then refer to this thread to see what kind of morons accuse people of being bots:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ar-t78978.html

Edit: I'm not sure whether this is funny or if it pisses me off. Not to sound confrontational, but accusing someone of being a bot just because they put in more hours than you seems like a sign of insecurity over your own work ethic. Maybe you should spend more time studying and playing poker and less time daydreaming about the so-called bots you play against?
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oskar
Old 11-29-2008, 04:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I'm pretty sure there are a number of bots active. Simply because the nature of the game is so mathematical, and the motivation for making them is definitely there - in addition there are millions of people with intermediate programming ability all over the world who have the skill to make a bot.

However!

I'm sure that all major sites work hard to detect monotone betting patterns and suspend suspicious accounts.

The bot will likely not be much better than the programmer. It takes a winning player to create a winning bot.

One time I was 99% sure I was playing a bot. A FR table dissolved, and I ended up HU with a player who folded every hand to my minraise, and never attacked my bb. Every 20 hands or so he would call - more likely raise, and give up on the flop without fail.
I thought: great. 1bb/ hand is awesome and kept playing. About 20 minutes in I bet, he called, I had an overpair and he raised me all-in with bottom pair and lost.
So as it turns out it was just another retard who tried to stick to an insanely tight strategy - did not know how to adjust to HU play and finally went broke with bottom pair after I kept pounding on him for half an hour.
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jyms
Old 11-29-2008, 06:03 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Must be a damn good bot if it's beating the micros.
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bigstock2001
Old 11-30-2008, 05:45 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I think spoon misunderstood what i was getting at so I apologize if it was taken out of context. All i really wanted to know is if you need to change your style against people that you feel are not real. That is all I was getting at. It does not matter to me how they play I have been successful up to this point. But if I need to change my style of play to beat them than I would. The two players i think maybe I am winning against but it is not a whole lot. That is what i wanted to take from this thread. Not that i am accusing the world of being abot cause i can't win. I spend hours a week just looking over my hand history and reading here at this website. I have learned alot and don't want to piss anyone off. I have never asked anyone online if they are a bot or tried to talk to them to see if I get a response. I just wanted to know if i am up against a bot what should i do different to increase my profits against them. Those players that i think may be a bot are so damn tight that you can't get them involved to deep in a hand. But it is easy to fold when they do call. again sorry if I pissed anyone off I was just curious
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bigstock2001
Old 11-30-2008, 05:56 AM #7 (permalink)  
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spoon,
I read your link and now i understand why you got mad. rest assured I had no intentions of reporting people. I was only trying to figure out if I need to change my style of play to beat what I only thought was a bot. I asked the question cause I did not know and this is the place to ask questions. I don't think I am captain bot hunter and would never want to waste my time being. I want to turn my game into a profitable and Fun business. Thats all. Which means I need to know how to beat anything I may encounter. Again sorry if I pissed you off,
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Ragnar4
Old 11-30-2008, 07:26 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstock2001
spoon,
I read your link and now i understand why you got mad. rest assured I had no intentions of reporting people. I was only trying to figure out if I need to change my style of play to beat what I only thought was a bot. I asked the question cause I did not know and this is the place to ask questions. I don't think I am captain bot hunter and would never want to waste my time being. I want to turn my game into a profitable and Fun business. Thats all. Which means I need to know how to beat anything I may encounter. Again sorry if I pissed you off,
Don
I fully intend to piss spoon of on a regular basis.. I'll be reporting him tomorow, twice.
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spoonitnow
Old 11-30-2008, 01:48 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstock2001
spoon,
I read your link and now i understand why you got mad. rest assured I had no intentions of reporting people. I was only trying to figure out if I need to change my style of play to beat what I only thought was a bot. I asked the question cause I did not know and this is the place to ask questions. I don't think I am captain bot hunter and would never want to waste my time being. I want to turn my game into a profitable and Fun business. Thats all. Which means I need to know how to beat anything I may encounter. Again sorry if I pissed you off,
Don


You didn't piss me off, but you did miss the point. The question you're asking is like asking if you would play differently against someone if you knew they were a Klingon. The point is that it's completely irrelevant. You should play against your opponents based on how they play, not their species (or lack thereof).

And of course I had to link to those PMs because they're funny =P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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poker_pup
Old 11-30-2008, 03:35 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Once upon a time, there were three players I suspected of being bots. They all used the exact same betting patterns and consistently won. After I paid close attention to their betting patterns, they were predictable and easy to beat. In hindsight, they weren't bots but they were probably using the same strategy book or website.
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Chopper
Old 11-30-2008, 05:00 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
Must be a damn good bot if it's beating the micros.
in regards to this, i agree fully. most bots live at higher stakes and exist to grind off rakeback and bonuses. if you had a bot, why would you use it at lower stakes...other than to beta test it? from what i've understood, bots play a lot of limit and are most common at 1/2. but, again, its not worth losing sleep over, especially down in the micros where the abundance of fish will outweigh anything you lose to a bot.

in regards to the rest, see BankItDrew for the definition of a bot. he plays like one, but i assure you he is a real person...at least i think he is...lol.

one legit tip, though...bots dont talk. so, if the guy talks back to you, he isnt a bot. not that that tells you which ones are. it just tells you which ones arent.
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shazbox
Old 11-30-2008, 05:53 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Anybody capable of making a bot could easily make a bot that talks....
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JKDS
Old 11-30-2008, 06:35 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 bots at low stakes are typically hella predictable and easily exploitable. Although, the bigger sites are usually bot free.
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Jack Sawyer
Old 11-30-2008, 07:03 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 bots never time out either

and no, a bot can't talk in the sense of talking. it would be possible to spout one liners, but a bot cant answer concise questions

unless the bot ops is right there behind the keyboard.

so if you see a guy at 50 tables, you ask him a question and he answers instantly and correctly and doesnt time out, he's either a bot or an octopus. As far as I know, there are no PCs that work underwater, nor are there any octopus that can live and breathe in dry conditions.
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daven
Old 12-01-2008, 01:20 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
so if you see a guy at 50 tables, you ask him a question and he answers instantly and correctly and doesnt time out, he's either a bot or an octopus. .
i should turn off chat...
i lose track of how many times i've been accused in chat of being a bot by fish fools
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Robb
Old 12-01-2008, 08:17 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 There are lots of bots at some smaller sites, but stars and FT work hard to detect them. They have proactive registry searches (yes, your poker software does at times behave like spyware) for known bots and emulator set ups. Some sites don't seem to care. I'm pretty meh about how I feel about them. They generally suck and are +EV to play against. But the longer the poker sites let them go unchecked, the better the chances are that someone makes one that's really good.
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sarbox68
Old 12-02-2008, 06:56 PM #17 (permalink)  
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I would rather play bots > octupi > thinking player any day of the week.

It's a waste of time IMHO to worry about who's a bot. We're all just freakin funky avatars and digital chips anyhoo. Watch the funky avatar play, look for patterns and exploit them. Don't much care who or what's pushing the buttons behind it....

Octopi on the other hand are a different story... For instance, I did not know that there are 3 plurals for octopus - octopuses, octopodes and octopi. That's some freaky sh!t right there.....
 
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Jack Sawyer
Old 12-02-2008, 11:14 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 octopodes? now that's a new one


The problem is as follows: the bot never tires, never deviates from its programming, never tilts.

Therefore, in the long run (which is what poker is all about), the bot will always forever have a huge advantage over human players.

Also, poker is a zero sum game (if we exclude rake for simplification purposes). What's bad for one player, must be good for another. The moment a real player goes on tilt, poker bot profits even more.

Now, the next problem is that, well, its code. And code can be copied and run by any idiot with a computer. If somebody invents a good one that can be disguised well enough, and can play optimally....

.... real players would be fucked up the ass.



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sarbox68
Old 12-03-2008, 05:02 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
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octopodes? now that's some freaky sh!t
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sarbox68
Old 12-03-2008, 05:02 AM #20 (permalink)  
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octopodes? now that's some freaky sh!t
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Kijjo
Old 12-03-2008, 07:14 AM #21 (permalink)  
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While playing Battle of the Planets a couple weeks ago I checked the leaderboard roughly 20 hrs into the new week. Some guy already had a 100 game block done. Now I know it's humanly POSSIBLE to have pulled that out - 20 games simultaneously, run back to back for 7/8 hrs, but come on, who does that right?
Then I saw his score. After I think 5 games I had around 170 pts. After 100 games, this dude had something in the 330's!!!
I looked at that and said, Haha nice bot, he's losing your money you idiot, pull the plug!!
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