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dalecooper
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02-07-2005, 08:42 PM
Post subject: How to deal with the low flush?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Situation: I'm playing 78 suited in middle position. Limped in. There are a few other players in the hand. Pot's about $2.
I flop the flush draw and semi-bluff with a $1 bet. Only one player calls me.
Turn brings my flush and I bet $2 (half the pot). He raises that to $4.
Question: call, re-raise, or fold here?
What I actually did: flat called, then bet another $2 on the river hoping he'd just call and I could find out cheap. He actually raised me $8 and I had to fold there.
I wonder if it is more effective to re-raise in that situation, say from $4 to $8. It would get me the information I want sooner, but for a little more money. Worth it to re-raise there or no? I figured by flat-calling on an obvious flush card and then betting the river I was letting him know I had a flush and was not to be bluffed; I felt his river bet signified a very high flush and I got out.
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Ayce
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Either fold or raise. A call tells your opponent you are weak.
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BigmacAg
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 29
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What was the flop? I would think that since he limped in also, that if he had TPGK, or even trips on the flop, that he would bet hard to protect it from the flush draw instead of letting you see the next card for $1. Since he didn't I would put him on the flush draw since he was willing to re-raise you once the flush came. I would lay it down here, but I am somewhat of a passive player. If you didn't believe that he had a flush, a re-raise here would probably be best. He would know that you had a very good flush and have a hard time calling unless he was certain that he had you beat. You do get the information that you are looking for, but the question is are you willing to spend the money to find it out.
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<Buaidh no Bas>
Victory or Death
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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There were only 3 to the flush on the board, right? I doubt I'd have laid it down, and I'd probably have raised higher on the river. I don't find a middle range flush to be a frightening thing to play though. It's not the nuts, but it's a strong hand if both hole cards are used to make it. Just for argument's sake, what were the cards on the table? Were the flush cards higher or lower than yours?
- Jeffrey
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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The cards were scattershot - two higher than mine, but not much higher. I don't think there was any card higher than a jack on the board. Yes there were only three suited on the board, but I was concerned about his betting pattern here. It looked like the classic "call with a draw, start raising once you make the hand" type of play. With no bets from him on the flop, the only other thing I could figure is that maybe he made a straight or two pair and was trying to bet me out. The most likely scenario still seems to me like the higher flush.
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gregor
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 95
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seems like weak betting......betting half the pot when the flush comes signifies to me an informational bet, maybe with a pair or something that may get pushed out by the flush....Guy may come over hoping for the one card flush to his high card....He may have had 2 pair or TPTK....
When you simply called his reraise, he may have seen you on a one card flush draw, looking to get odds on the hand....
I think the $2 bet was weak....that gave him signals you were weak when in fact you were strong....
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gregor
I think the $2 bet was weak....that gave him signals you were weak when in fact you were strong....
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Agreed. As above, I'd have called - maybe even pushed (depending on read for this guy) - at this point. Especially since there were more cards higher than yours than there were cards lower than yours. Makes it less likely that you're beat even if he has the flush. If I had 23 of the flush, and I were the other guy, I might well play exactly the way he has been - possibly the same with a set or two pair.
- Jeffrey
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Seems to me you had him beat. Maybe the card that gave you the flush gave him two pair. I see it happen all the time. By semibluffing the draw, you somewhat disguised your flush when it came. He may have been gambling that you didn't have it. He probably didn't think flush was a factor.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
Seems to me you had him beat. Maybe the card that gave you the flush gave him two pair. I see it happen all the time. By semibluffing the draw, you somewhat disguised your flush when it came. He may have been gambling that you didn't have it. He probably didn't think flush was a factor.
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You might be right about then. On further analysis I wish I'd re-raised him on the turn or called on the river. Either way, at least I wouldn't have this nagging curiosity.
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