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thizzSantaCruz
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10-26-2006, 09:45 AM
Post subject: How could I have played this to minimize my losses?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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The setting is a weekly game at school. It is a full table 40 dollar maximum buy in. Blinds are .25/.50 NL hold em.
A little background on the game, I had been playing very tight and picking up nice pots. I have played with this group for about a month now and they respect my style of play. I had picked up some decent pots along the way and had a stack of about 80 dollars.
I am on the button and there is a raise to 2.00, 3 people call. I am holding 3s 7s and decide to make the call. 5 people to the flop and my dream comes true, 4d 5d 6h. It is checked all the way around and I bet 10 fearing the flush. My thinking is that hopefully I will chase a bunch of people off and hopefully get a caller with a set. It is folded around to the person that acts behind me.
He plays a lot of hand combinations and has been relatively wreckless throughout the game. He has been very hot lately and has a stack of around $120. His post flop play is decent. He min raises me to 20. This is strange because he has rarely raised throughout the whole game. He had also checked behind me but at the time I failed to realize this. I thought about it for a while and pushed all in. He flipped over 7h 8h.
Was there anything I could have done here to help myself out? Thinking back on the hand maybe I should have just called his raise. It is unlikely he is raising on a flush draw and a 2 pair or set gives me the best hand.
Thoughts on this?
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MightyMarc
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 23
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Well, I am new to poker but the two thoughts I had:
1. fold 37s pre-flop
2. min raise by a passive player (was it even a check-raise?). Looks like he made his hand and wants to build up a big pot > fold
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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MightyMarc is right when he says this is a simple pre-flop fold.
But once that flop comes up you're going to have to put it all in. There's only one hand out there which is ahead and he just happened to have it.
In general it's as likely that he's got an overpair or even a set as just the exact two cards that make the nuts.
You played it fine, but you were up agaisnt a monster. It happens, don't worry you'll get your share if you continue to play right.
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biondino
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10-26-2006, 12:37 PM
Post subject: Re: How could I have played this to minimize my losses?
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
Thinking back on the hand maybe I should have just called his raise. It is unlikely he is raising on a flush draw and a 2 pair or set gives me the best hand.
Thoughts on this?
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I don't think you should be calling his raise here - pushing is without doubt the best move. You have the 2nd nuts here but you're vulnerable and you don't want a third flush card falling, you don't want the board pairing, unless you can honestly see yourself folding. Can you?
p.s. it's impossible to make the nut straight with a three-gapper. I agree, this is a straightforward fold pre-flop.
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BowlinPinTim
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: None
Posts: 50
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fold preflop
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Not trying to be harsh, its all been said already. Fold preflop.
That being said, lets look at somethings you said since you didn't fold.
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I had been playing very tight and picking up nice pots
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So far so good.
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I am on the button and there is a raise to 2.00, 3 people call. I am holding 3s 7s and decide to make the call
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See the last statement about very tight.
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5 people to the flop and my dream comes true, 4d 5d 6h.
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You have bad dreams, this is a nightmare and you already know why. Start dreaming of 3d 3c 7h when holding that hand.
Nope, Check raises you to 20
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This is strange because he has rarely raised throughout the whole game.
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Alarm bells should go off here.
Just some points to ponder, especially live when you have time, one table to watch, and you've been playing with them before. You'll figure it out. Keep asking questions, it's been really helping me to do the same thing
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Well, a big question is just how big of a hand this guy needs to raise after the flop. If he almost never raises, the minimum range is probably 44, 55, 66, 78, 37, and 23. Can you discount 37 and 23 because he doesn't play hands that bad? If that's his range, minus the 37 and 23, It's a fold because you will have to risk your whole stack, and it's 12:9 you are behind getting 10:7 odds. If the hand ended on the flop, you could call, but he catches you when you are ahead about 1/3 of the time, and you have only 3 outs to tie when you are behind. The whole question is how closely can you pin down his range and how certain of it can you be. It's very tough to fold this here. You must be very certain of your read. Have you learned anything specific and consistent from the hands he has shown down?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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This guy plays any 2 cards. Usually will limp with any 2 but he will not hesitate to call a raise with them as he did here. Really there was no way to put him on any 2 cards. He has been showing 23 suited, or AQ suited all game long. He seems to enjoy trying to play unusual hands and taking big pots down with them.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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What would you estimate his ranging range here? Would he raise with top 2pair? Any set? Any straight? Only the nuts?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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I do not recall him raising the entire game. He possibly would have reraised with a set but most likely not 2 pair.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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I wonder if your opponent realizes that a set is a stonger holding here than a non-nut straight. The reason for this is that a set (especially top set) beats almost as many strong hands as a non-nut straight, but is less vulnerable to being drawn out on, and has more outs if behind to a nut straight. I think the key here, having ruled out 2pair, is would he raise with 23 or 37. Another considerati0n is would he check it down without the nuts here if you call.
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