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how bad is this call

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siknd

03-23-2006, 02:37 AM Post subject: how bad is this call

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

my first orbit at the table = zero reads. the reason i get confused here is because i hold the nut flush. i start licking my chops on the turn because i believe he has also made a flush. but then i start thinking "unraised pot, unraised pot, bad call with 53".

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $65.40
UTG+1: $71.65
UTG+2: $125.20
MP1: $96.50
MP2: $23.50
MP3: $94.80
CO: $68.90
siknd: $102.60
SB: $105.20
BB: $24.10

Pre-flop: (10 players) siknd is Button with A

6 folds, CO calls $1, siknd calls $1, SB calls $0.5, BB checks.

Flop: 3

($4, 4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $3, CO calls $3, siknd calls $3, SB calls $3.

Turn: 2

($16, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, siknd bets $10, SB calls $10, 2 folds.

River: 3

($36, 2 players)
SB bets $15, siknd calls $15.

Results:
Final pot: $66
SB has 3S7S
siknd has AS6S

this is probably a 70$ mistake, because if hes willing to make this river play hes most likely willing to put it all in.

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

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Greedo017

03-23-2006, 05:37 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot

Posts: 1,461

when i first read this hand, i thought it was tricky, but as i've thought about it, why would you not raise? I don't know that i'd push, but a raise to 40-50 would be nice. nowhere along the way has he shown any strength. i'm expecting to see something on the flop or turn from a set or 35.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

bdawg56kg

03-23-2006, 07:51 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Do you think SB check/calls this flop after a bet and 2 callers with a set? I don't think that's likely. He likely is on some sort of draw (or a complete donk which results show), so I am raising this river everytime, and calling a push.

Miffed22001

03-23-2006, 08:17 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

plays like a flush to me. Raise/push.

siknd

03-23-2006, 12:49 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

yep, thats what i thought. sometimes i can be pathetically weak-tight.

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

Seabass

03-23-2006, 02:35 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: trying not to die

Posts: 205

I dont think its that bad without a read and I realy dont think its a 70$ mistake. Lets say it might be a 15$ mistake for a bump min raise at the end.

Flop, feals like some sort of draw (from both you and him).

Turn, you bet strong when the flush hits and all he has is 7 high. It feals like he is scared of a higher flush with the rather heavy calling action on the flop.

River, not a funny 3 but kinda weak raise, like he is trying to control the showdown or gain some info.

But then again, he did complete the blind with 73s. This is why you need those reads. Time to make some notes.

Pelion

03-23-2006, 02:44 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

If you raise he will come over the top of you and that isnt a nice call to have to make. I think I probably just call with the stack sizes.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Seabass

03-23-2006, 03:11 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: trying not to die

Posts: 205

I dont think the other player is a donkey, why? I assume a donkey would play that turn harder.

If he aint a donkey (I dont know how they think), what semi solid player would push a 7 high flush with a paired board? Given the turn bet, it realy limit things.

siknd

03-23-2006, 03:16 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabass

perhaps he was afraid of a fourth spade on the river, or perhaps he was getting greedy and wanted the third man in. i dont know. sadly, he was probably 'slow playing' it.

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

Fnord

03-23-2006, 03:58 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

plays like a flush to me. Raise/push.

Without looking at results, how do you put him on a flush? The turn check/check call makes no sense!

I was thinking a Queen or really weakly played set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

jungy121

03-23-2006, 04:57 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

If you raise he will come over the top of you and that isnt a nice call to have to make. I think I probably just call with the stack sizes.

how do you figure he'll come over the top? theirs a range o hands that that can beat him, the villian. I know I wouldn't go over the top when hero bets strong on the turn representing the flush and raises me when I bet the river. that's just throwing in dead money.

jungy121

03-23-2006, 05:40 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

If you raise he will come over the top of you and that isnt a nice call to have to make. I think I probably just call with the stack sizes.

WildBobAA

03-23-2006, 05:58 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: lol i dunno

Posts: 1,811

Without any reads I'm a strong believer in not raising non-nut hands on the river.

siknd

03-26-2006, 03:31 PM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

im learning. i wanted to just call on the end SO bad. but thot it was too cowardly, and if im gonna ask for advice here then i better take it.

MP3 had just sat down, however from previous sessions i know he was a loose raiser but tight caller, who played a wide range of hands fairly well:

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $150
UTG+1: $75
UTG+2: $292.80
MP1: $210.45
MP2: $184
MP3: $199.20
CO: $34.20
Button: $319.20
SB: $164.20
siknd: $213.40

Pre-flop: (10 players) siknd is BB with K

UTG calls $2, 4 folds, MP3 calls $2, 3 folds, 3 folds, siknd checks.

Flop: 9

($7, 3 players)
siknd checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: K

($7, 3 players)
siknd bets $4, UTG folds, MP3 calls $4.

River: A

($15, 2 players)
siknd bets $10, MP3 raises to $20, siknd raises to $75, MP3 calls $55.

Results:
Final pot: $165
siknd has 9CKS
MP3 has AH10S

whats makes these situations hard for me is that i would never make plays like the villian. i need to stop putting myself in others shoes, and focus on trusting reads. as fnord says 'you=him!?'

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

WildBobAA

03-26-2006, 05:07 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: lol i dunno

Posts: 1,811

That was an awful play by the villian.

Fnord

03-26-2006, 11:22 PM

#16 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

Without any reads I'm a strong believer in not raising non-nut hands on the river.

You're missing out on a lot of value. Particularly when it's safe to fold to a 3-bet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

siknd

03-27-2006, 12:46 AM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

what do you think of this last hand if its the nine that pairs instead of king? still pretty safe with weak pf action.

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

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