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dalecooper
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05-03-2005, 10:18 PM
Post subject: Hold 'em trendspotting
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Noticed any interesting trends in hold 'em online or elsewhere? Here's a few that fascinate me, mainly because they're so dumb:
- overbetting. More and more players are dramatically overbetting the pot as early in the hand as possible. I don't know if they fear the suck-out or just have come to equate any kind of aggression with good poker playing. This includes the ridiculous pre-flop pissing matches so common in ring games now. Raises are often not used for information; it's basically a dick-swinging contest.
- playing pocket pairs like they were all pocket aces. I have to believe this comes from tournaments (where there are plenty of good reasons to go all in with any pocket pair if the blinds are high and/or you are short-stacked). Or maybe it comes from a bunch of players who are all much too impressed with themselves & are trying to be the guy to make that great read, and call an all-in bet from AT with their pocket sevens, and exploit a very slim statistical advantage. Whatever the case, it blows my mind every time I see a three-way all-in in a ring game, and the three participants have pocket threes, pocket fours, and pocket jacks.
- calling bets or raises on the flop, then folding to similar (or smaller) raises on the turn. I'll never figure this out. A guy bets $1 on the flop, is raised to $4, and calls. On the turn he checks, his opponent bets $4 again (giving better pot odds than the flop bet), and he folds. This has to be the biggest money-wasting leak for the average online player. Almost none of these guys have draws of consequence; they bet with a weak top or middle pair, and then call that raise out of stubbornness or something. Maybe they just don't want to look like they're buying. But they need to realize, their hand isn't very likely to improve on the turn. If they don't want to call a $4 bet on the turn unimproved, they shouldn't call the same bet on the flop.
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Pyroxene
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05-03-2005, 11:35 PM
Post subject: Re: Hold 'em trendspotting
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#2 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 236
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Noticed any interesting trends in hold 'em online or elsewhere?
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Any two cards are worth playing regardless of blinds, stack size or position as long as they are suited.
Calling a big raise raise from an AK with a K2, flopping a K 2 x for two pair, betting a lot, losing when the board pairs a rag giving the AK a better two pair. Bonus credit for saying, "damn you are lucky, that crap always happens to me." There is about a 30% chance of the AK winning post flop because there are a lot of ways for two pair to lose when one of those pairs is 2's. So the AK hitting his 30% chance to improve is 'lucky' while the fish thinks that the fact he hit a hidden two pair on the flop (2.02%) is just him playing good poker.
Slow playing 2 Aces from the Button with 4 limpers and likely 2 more from the blinds. Complaining when they are cracked, usually with a line like, "that's <Online-Poker-Site> for you."
The Big blind folding to a CALL from the small blind. I saw that THREE times yesterday from THREE different people. Perhaps they were dealt the instruction card and the lost card reorder card, not much chance to improve and you certainly do not want to get married to a hand like that.
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Pyroxene
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Theeggman
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 363
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Overbetting - I've seen a lot of that. Even all-ins with like a $.75 pot. Ruins the hand IMO.
PPs - That too. I was playing tagg in a 250 player MTT (70 ppl left) last night and got KK in MP. I made a huge pfr (15-20x bb) because the table was real loose. I was hoping to get 1 caller or just take down the blinds. SB came ai (had him covered) and the BB reraised all-in. SB:TT BB:99. Flop: XXX Turn: 9 River:X. PPs are money in the bank now I guess.
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I'll be a rootin' tootin' shootin' damn fool, protectin' my chips.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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At NL25 I've started to see a rise in the "short-stack-all-in-every-other-hand" guy. These guys will push with anything just hoping to double up. Then they'll push again hoping to double up again. Usually they will go broke and rebuy. Then the whole table is riled up and starts going crazy with their betting, which is good for me since I'm a "camper" usually.
Pissing matches are fun to watch. I'll even type in the chat window, "This is awesome, we get to see who's pee-pee is bigger."
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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why complain about these items and enjoy them instead... the more idiots you have sitting at a ring game going all in with 88 preflop the better.
the more people who dont know pot odds the better.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Pissing matches are fun to watch. I'll even type in the chat window, "This is awesome, we get to see who's pee-pee is bigger."
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i think poker is changing for the better ... the clueless make us all profit more
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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I can only wish to see this kind of play at .50-1 and 1-2 NL.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
why complain about these items and enjoy them instead...
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No complaints from me - strictly observation.
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Quote:
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At NL25 I've started to see a rise in the "short-stack-all-in-every-other-hand" guy
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I took advantage of this guy the other night. Actually I took advantage of the other people at the table using this guy as a springboard. He wasn't going all in often, but never saw a flop without all his chips in. He had like $2.87 at a $25.00 table. After the 5th time he stole the blinds, I called him a one-trick-pony. The next time he did it, I told him to learn how to play post-flop. I ragged on this player awhile, and after that, every time I got a raising hand, rather than raise my usual 3-5x, I would raise exactly this guy's stack: $2.87. He never called, but others at the table started calling these rather large raises with just about anything.
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The_Cheat
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Takin yo' scratch
Posts: 173
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that whole suited thing is startin to piss me off
i was playin in my live game the other day, and it came down to me and three other guys. A fifth guy, who busted in the first half hour was stickin around, watching us play. He is a regular at my house, usually does alright in the tourny's, placing ITM quite regularly. I get deal 8s 5s UTG, and i announce fold. The guy who wasnt playing asked to see my cards before i mucked them, so i showed him, and then tossed them into the discard. He asked me why i folded. I said, because that hand sucks. He says, "But they were s00ted. I will play anything s00ted!"
I couldnt believe it
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Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Cheat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The english prefer tea and crumpets. Americans prefer to kick your ass.
-'rilla
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Cheat
He says, "But they were s00ted. I will play anything s00ted!"
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if you have a few people that believe in playing all suited cards at your table, you have to play all your suited aces cheap.. if they play all their suited cards, they dont lay them down when their flush hits, so with the ace high flush, your taking their stack.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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The_Cheat
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Takin yo' scratch
Posts: 173
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oh ya, this is the same guy that gets pissed at me when i raise preflop after 4 guys try to limp...
honestly they know nothing of the game
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Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Cheat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The english prefer tea and crumpets. Americans prefer to kick your ass.
-'rilla
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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haha, ya shame on you, what were you thinking raising preflop with AA
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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The_Cheat
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Takin yo' scratch
Posts: 173
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i know. its not like i wanted to scare out those wieners with s00ted cards or anything. i mean, shangri la, what was I thinking
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Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Cheat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The english prefer tea and crumpets. Americans prefer to kick your ass.
-'rilla
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I especiallly like the river overbet. It seems like a lot of fishy players do this when they make a solid hand, even if it was on the flop. They check-call on the flop and turn, or make small bets, then suddenly slam down a bet that's like twice the size of the pot on the river, or they just go all-in even though no one is going to call without the nuts.
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RHCNNN
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 152
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In tourneys I have noticed that when the board has an obvious draw players to act first will often bet small if they are drawing and want to see the next card for cheap. This is a good time to raise hard. Even if they call its usually just because they feel obligated to call since they already put chips in the pot. If the next card comes and is unrelated to any draw they might have, and its gets checked to you then a decent bet always* takes it down.
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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A trend I've noticed, at least and 25-50NL on party, is people bluffing at the flush a lot. I think everyone fears the flush so much, that people are starting to bet big when the scare card comes. In the past few weeks, I've called down those flush bets about 10 times, and it seems like 60% of the time it's a bluff.
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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ekillian
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05-04-2005, 07:19 PM
Post subject: Re: Hold 'em trendspotting
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#18 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 235
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
- calling bets or raises on the flop, then folding to similar (or smaller) raises on the turn. I'll never figure this out. A guy bets $1 on the flop, is raised to $4, and calls. On the turn he checks, his opponent bets $4 again (giving better pot odds than the flop bet), and he folds. This has to be the biggest money-wasting leak for the average online player. Almost none of these guys have draws of consequence; they bet with a weak top or middle pair, and then call that raise out of stubbornness or something. Maybe they just don't want to look like they're buying. But they need to realize, their hand isn't very likely to improve on the turn. If they don't want to call a $4 bet on the turn unimproved, they shouldn't call the same bet on the flop.
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What I figure this to be is one of two things. They were bluffing and are now trying to save face. A stupid chipleak. Or they were weak, but called hoping to get lucky on the turn. Another stupid chip leak.
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