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Hitting set, trying to get paid off.

  
 
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FlopTurnThenRivered
Old 07-11-2006, 09:25 PM     Post subject: Hitting set, trying to get paid off. #1 (permalink)  

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FlopTurnThenRivered
I've had a bit of trouble as of late with getting paid off when I make my sets on the flop. Of course the guy(s) I'm in the pot with have to have some sort of hand, but say I hit my set on the flop and are first to act - should I come out firing, or try entice someone else to be the aggressor?

If I'm raised into with a substantial bet by the pf raiser, and I am the only other person in the flop. Should I generally flat call, then re-raise the turn. Or re-raise the flop? I just feel that I'm giving away the strength of my hand at the wrong times, and I'm not stacking anyone or getting paid off the amount I really should be.
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-11-2006, 09:33 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You can play it many ways.

If you are first to act, and someone raised preflop, I like to check to the raiser, as he may make a continuation bet. You can choose to reraise from there or call and lead or push the turn depending on the range of hands I put him on.

If the pot was unraised you have to bet it or you are just giving drawers a free card. Plus you need to build the pot size so you can overbet the turn or river.
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BowlinPinTim
Old 07-11-2006, 09:56 PM #3 (permalink)  
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It depends on how many players see the flop. If more are still in after calling the pre-flop raise then you can probably bet without fear of losing everyone. On the other hand if it's just you and the pre-flop raiser, you can check and give him a chance to try a c-bet. I agree that in an unraised pot you must bet though to drive out draws.
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The Don
Old 07-11-2006, 10:15 PM #4 (permalink)  

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The Don
It depends on a few things such as the texture of the flop and your perceived table image. If the flop has a flush / straight draw and you're up against more than 1 or 2 players, you need to bet big to scare some of them away. However, if the flop comes rainbow you can slow play it. In addition, you need to ask yourself "what do they think of me?" If you normally throw out a bet after the flop, then do so here and let someone else take the lead betting.
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-12-2006, 03:16 AM #5 (permalink)  
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How would you play this set?

NL$10 5 Handed

rock63: 11.74
Robsniff: 8.31
Arf1000: 12.80
BladeBoris: 8.08
WC4482l: 14.30

Robsniff posts the large blind 0.10
rock63 posts the small blind 0.05

Pre-flop: WC4482l is dealt 4 4
Arf1000: Raise 0.20, BladeBoris: Call 0.20, WC4482l: Call 0.20, rock63: Call 0.20, Robsniff: Call 0.20


Flop (Board: 7, K, 4):
rock63: Bet 0.10, Robsniff: Fold, Arf1000: Call 0.10, BladeBoris: Call 0.10, WC4482l: ????

This is an exercise for FlopTurnthenRivered. Reply and post what you would do on the flop. Then post what you would do on the turn and river. What if you were raised?

Highlight below to see the turn card:
7s
Highlight below to see the river card:
8h
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FlopTurnThenRivered
Old 07-12-2006, 03:35 AM #6 (permalink)  

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FlopTurnThenRivered
If I were to Slow play - call the flop, raise/re-raise the turn hoping someone paired their sevens, raise/push the river

Firing bullets - re-raise the flop 3-4x, raise/re-raise the turn, raise/push the river.

I can see how it's dangerous to slow play in in certain situations (flush or straight draw on board), but in this situation I might slow play the hand until the turn because it's a clean flop for my set, and by re-raising the flop I could knock out the person with the seven.

To be honest I don't really know what the best line to take would be, an excersize like this really get's me thinking, and I'm interested to know what line you took and what you think of the lines I suggest.
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Vrax
Old 07-12-2006, 03:55 AM #7 (permalink)  
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It's really dry texture, only sets, TPTK and Ripptyde will give you action here.

I'd raise it small (half pot ot 1/3) to build the pot, then bet the turn and river, reasonable value bets (1/2-2/3) to keep top pair calling. If turn is K or A, someone could make Aces up or think he improved his K6o and you can bet stronger and destack him.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-12-2006, 04:05 AM #8 (permalink)  
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By no means is this the perfect way to play it. But I did stack someone.

NL$10 5 Handed

rock63: 11.74
Robsniff: 8.31
Arf1000: 12.80
BladeBoris: 8.08
WC4482l: 14.30

Robsniff posts the large blind 0.10
rock63 posts the small blind 0.05

Pre-flop: WC4482l is dealt 4 4
Arf1000: Raise 0.20, BladeBoris: Call 0.20, WC4482l: Call 0.20, rock63: Call 0.20, Robsniff: Call 0.20


Flop (Board: 7, K, 4):
rock63: Bet 0.10, Robsniff: Fold, Arf1000: Call 0.10, BladeBoris: Call 0.10, WC4482l: Raise 0.80, rock63: Raise 1.50, Arf1000: Call 1.50, BladeBoris: Fold, WC4482l: All in (14.10), rock63: All in(11.54), Arf1000: Fold

I could have called the 0.10 bet on the flop. If everyone had called it, the pot would still be relatively small and there would still be 5 people in the hand (if no one else raised).

I chose to give a decent sized raise which would thin the playing field. Someone reraised me and then another called. This is an automatic allin. If i just reraised a little bit, the caller would probably have called again. At this point the only decent draw would be 56.

Turn (Board: 7, K, 4, 7):


River (Board: 7, K, 4, 7, 8):


Showdown:

WC4482l shows: 4s, 4h (full house)
rock63 shows: Kc, 4c (two pair, Kings and Sevens)

Mainpot:
WC4482l wins the pot of 25.28 with full house

[edit: Fixed the suit icons]
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-12-2006, 04:12 AM #9 (permalink)  
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ThelVlaster
There will be times when you hit your set, make a moderate-good sized bet, and have everyone fold. Then you say to yourself, damnit I should have slowplayed.

Then there will be times when you slowplay flop and turn, and you are stuck with a scary board on the river, either winning a small pot or losing a big one.

I really only like slowplaying the flop if theres only 1 or 2 other people in the pot with you. I never slowplay the flop and turn - if they don't have anything they won't call you, simple as that.
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 07-12-2006, 05:29 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
It's really dry texture, only sets, TPTK and Ripptyde will give you action here.
NH sir.
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-12-2006, 01:20 PM #11 (permalink)  
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you must raise pot on the flop.

The fact that you did that makes you super sexy.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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