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eragotte
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12-20-2009, 04:36 AM
Post subject: Hit the gut shot and fold??
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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No reads, poker tracker not working and he is new to the table. Range is like JJ+ with low waiting, maybe AJ, J9, J8s, 99, 88, 55, Q10 or just stupidness? A easy fold on the river? maybe even the turn?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($25)
Button ($27.65)
SB ($26.85)
Hero (BB) ($31.80)
UTG ($23.55)
MP ($25)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 , 7
UTG bets $0.50, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25
Flop: ($2.10) 5 , J , 9 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.25, CO raises to $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1, UTG calls $0.75
Turn: ($6.10) 8 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.25, CO raises to $3.25, Button raises to $10, Hero calls $10, 2 folds
River: ($29.60) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $16.15 (All-In), Hero calls $16.15
Total pot: $61.90
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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flop looks like a fold b/c
a. you're not closing the action and UTG bet the flop
b. you're not drawing to da nizzles
I'd get the money in on the turn, and I guess I could see myself folding board pair rivers but I normally wouldn't get there w/ any money left behind. Finally, I'd lead the turn.
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Donachello
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: TROLOLOLOLOL
Posts: 849
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I think in this spot 4betting on the turn works out better for you. The only hand beating you at that point is Q10 which conceivably the button could have. Regardless, you're better getting your money in here if you are going to get it in as not many if any cards on the turn can improve your hand. I'd say it's either get it in on the turn or fold it there if you think a Q10 is really in his range and it easily could be.
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol
Problem officer...?
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grindinginnj
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 143
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You have to push the turn..Dont you?
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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My reason for smooth calling is that I feel like reraising makes my range easier to read, by flat calling I can maybe get the initial raiser typical microdonk to call along with a weakish hand? that way I get value from hands I beat rather than isolating the two villains ranges towards Q10 the only hand that beats me.
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Hoopy
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Riverballs
Posts: 777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
My reason for smooth calling is that I feel like reraising makes my range easier to read, by flat calling I can maybe get the initial raiser typical microdonk to call along with a weakish hand? that way I get value from hands I beat rather than isolating the two villains ranges towards Q10 the only hand that beats me.
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Check raising 3 people looks very very strong, especially after a bet - raise - reraise, but it's better than flat calling with 2 people still to act behind you + pot will be bloated on river.
Leading the turn lets you get value from worse hands (Jx, turned 2 pair) and hopefully get it in. Folding seems bad if we call flop trying to hit our gutshot.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Ya I agree leading the turn is def best, but I didnt haha, so what do I do now? lol :P
whats the downside of smooth calling? random draws arent calling 10$ anyway, some people may have boat outs nut I get the feeling those ppl are in on the river or turn either way
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,519
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WAT SPENDA SAID END OF THREAD
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
flop looks like a fold b/c
a. you're not closing the action and UTG bet the flop
b. you're not drawing to da nizzles
I'd get the money in on the turn, and I guess I could see myself folding board pair rivers but I normally wouldn't get there w/ any money left behind. Finally, I'd lead the turn.
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Afraid dis be the truth. PF is fine. Ugly spot for 67s from blinds in multiway pot on this flop. HU different story. But ya as played come over top on turn I think is your best bet.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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alright, alright, next time I will, he had J8 if anyone was curious. I agree with the advice but once I get to the river with no reads it's probably a fold... but I called
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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I think you are suffering from FPS on the turn. A straight with 2 suited cards on the board is always vulnerable. Why set yourself up to have to potentially make a difficult river decision, when you are almost certainly ahead on the turn?
Seriously, slowplaying too much is a massive leak for microstakes players, whereas slowplaying too little is a small leak. But if you must slowplay, save it for hands where the villains have very little chance of drawing out on you. In this situation, any set has 10 outs, any flush draw has 9 outs, any 2 pair has 4 outs, plus there are draws to better straights out there. Protect your hand and get the chips in there.
As played, I am going to say what spoon would say in terms of the river-- you need to put your opponent on a range and decide whether you have enough equity against that range to call the all-in.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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What flush would draw here for 40bbs? but yes I generally agree, Ill push next time.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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God the flop is such a mothereffing fold.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
What flush would draw here for 40bbs? but yes I generally agree, Ill push next time.
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It isn't that you are seeing a lot of flush draws here. The only real possibility is some pair on the flop that picked up a flush draw on the turn. Rather, the point is that the flush draw is one more reason you have to bet your hand, along with the possibilities of higher straights and full houses.
As a general rule, the wetter the board, the more important it is to bet to protect your hand. This was a very wet board.
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