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HH - All in AKs hmmm

  
 
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WhileTrue
Old 07-18-2005, 09:28 PM     Post subject: HH - All in AKs hmmm #1 (permalink)  

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WhileTrue
2 others go all in before me (one is short). I have them both covered. I call them both for 75% of my stack with AKsuited. Bad call?

It's still early in the tourney, I had no read on these guys.

--Daniel


***** Hand History for Game 2385201652 *****
30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14049338) - Mon Jul 18 17:17:16 EDT 2005
Table 3 - Table(398538) Table 3 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: frutch1 (755)
Seat 3: Tenacious911 (1090)
Seat 4: durchbraten (300)
Seat 5: ladyfingers (1070)
Seat 6: Thong_Hunter (1065)
Seat 7: johnnieboy4 (1175)
Seat 8: WhileTrue (1535)
Seat 10: minicraps (2085)
minicraps posts small blind (15)
frutch1 posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to WhileTrue [ Kh, Ah ]
Tenacious911 folds.
durchbraten folds.
ladyfingers folds.
Thong_Hunter calls (30)
johnnieboy4 folds.
WhileTrue raises (100) to 100
minicraps folds.
frutch1 raises (725) to 755
frutch1 is all-In.
Thong_Hunter calls (725)
WhileTrue raises (1310) to 1410
Thong_Hunter calls (310)
Thong_Hunter is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $2280 with frutch1
Creating Side Pot 1 with $620 with Thong_Hunter
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2c, 8c, 6s ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Js ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 9d ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2280 | Side Pot 1: 620 | Side Pot 2: 345
Board: [ 2c 8c 6s Js 9d ]
frutch1 balance 0, lost 755 [ Td Ts ] [ a pair of tens -- Js,Td,Ts,9d,8c ]
Tenacious911 balance 1090, didn't bet (folded)
durchbraten balance 300, didn't bet (folded)
ladyfingers balance 1070, didn't bet (folded)
Thong_Hunter balance 2900, bet 1065, collected 2900, net +1835 [ Ks Jh ] [ a pair of jacks -- Ks,Jh,Js,9d,8c ]
johnnieboy4 balance 1175, didn't bet (folded)
WhileTrue balance 470, bet 1410, collected 345, lost -1065 [ Kh Ah ] [ high card ace -- Ah,Kh,Js,9d,8c ]
minicraps balance 2070, lost 15 (folded)
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CrunchyNuts
Old 07-18-2005, 10:31 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I don't like this play. AKs doesn't have much AI pull early, you're up against many opponents, and with two already going AI, it only takes one of them having a pp to sink your odds ('cause in all likelyhood, the other one's playing some of your outs).

For illustration, AKs vs AQs vs AJs, you're around 50% to win that. AKs vs AQs vs JJ, you're around 35%, and of course if someone's holding KK or AA, you're pretty deeply hosed.
Up my bankroll - buy Saints Row.
 
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Greedo017
Old 07-19-2005, 12:18 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 fold it.
i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
 
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MNMP2
Old 07-19-2005, 12:51 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I agree with the other posters here. Early on, I would not be calling an all-in with AK.

AK is not a made hand. You need help with this hand, and going all in preflop with it this early you could easily lose to ANY card that pairs up.

Don't overvalue this hand, especially early in a tournament.
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WhileTrue
Old 07-19-2005, 01:21 AM #5 (permalink)  

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Really great responses. I thought this hand was golden.

Does everyone agree then or are there some disagreers on the outliers?
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EricE
Old 07-19-2005, 01:25 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Agree. I only go All-in HU with AA and KK. I used to try AK like you but it nearly always loses to other made hands. Losing to pocket 3s was the clue. hehe.
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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Sed
Old 07-19-2005, 01:31 AM #7 (permalink)  
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As the blinds get bigger, AK gets stronger...


No fear, go deep or go home!
 
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G3O
Old 07-19-2005, 02:03 PM #8 (permalink)  

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G3O
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTrue
Really great responses. I thought this hand was golden.
AKs can be golden. But, its nothing more than a speculative hand until you see the flop.

Do the math...if you win with this hand by it will probably be by pairing your A or K. Assuuming that no one else has a A or K (which is unlikely in a situation with pre-flop raising and reraising), you only have 6 outs.

Of course, you may hit a strong hand like 2 pair, but someone playing 2 random cards has the same chance that AK has.

Flushes and Straights, are also possible. The facts, however, are that most pots are won with weaker hands, so chasing Straights and Flushes is a losing game. You really need to see the flop for right price before making a decision on it. No offense, but 75% of your stack is not the right price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTrue
Does everyone agree then or are there some disagreers on the outliers?
You said it was early in the tourney. I play tourneys exclusively, so I know that the play is mostly wild early on. The best thing to do is ride it out and play tight until it settles down. While laying low, look for an opportunity to have the loose/wild players pay you off. The extra chips will help you in middle-play when the blinds get bigger and the gets competition trickier.

Is this the reason you decided to called the AI?

If yes, then I don't agree that AKs is the hand to do it with. In the situation you described, I would personally fold anything weaker than pocket J
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Irisheyes
Old 07-19-2005, 05:34 PM #9 (permalink)  
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AK has a 50% chance of hitting either and A or K by the river. You get higher percentage because of the flush draw possibilities but I still wouldn't want to be risking my tourney on this early on.
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Aces
Old 07-19-2005, 05:41 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Easy fold.
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G3O
Old 07-19-2005, 06:57 PM #11 (permalink)  

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By the way, Doyle Brunson wrote an interesting section about AK in Super System. You may want to look at that.
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TylerK
Old 07-19-2005, 09:18 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Late in a tournament, I fear an all-in and a call. Early, I'm happy to make this call against the usual gang of idiots. I have very little time invested and I'm getting 3:1 on my money. Additionally, the bigger my stack is, the more opportunity I have to generate MORE chips later.

I'm maybe a little more willing to push thin edges than a lot of people, but I really think you're getting some bad advice in this thread.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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WhooFleuryScores
Old 07-21-2005, 06:20 AM     Post subject: I learned the had way #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Don't overvalue this hand, especially early in a tournament.
In a tourney I'm willing to risk it ESP with 3-to-1 odds on my money.Cash game nowadays I'm less likely to call an AI preflop(unless the poor doofus has less then 5x the BB in which case I call).

Quote:
I thought this hand was golden.
As I once did.It's still my favorite hand but I've learned when to get off it and cut my losses.
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Xanadu
Old 07-23-2005, 06:43 PM #14 (permalink)  
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first, raise more preflop. 3-5x big blind. Second, I like the call. There are only 2 hands you fear here ... AA and KK. If you are up against 2 pocket pairs below a K, you are getting great odds to beat them both ... If you triple up here, you are in great position, and against the average yahoo, you gotta think your odds of being dominated are low.
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Miffed22001
Old 07-24-2005, 02:13 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Changed my post.
1. Push
2. Push
3. Push

If you catch your picking up a huge stack. If you miss well nh gg. You'll win enough to make it worth it. The pocket 10s should call KJ should fold but i doubt that will happen looking at the way KJ played it.
In mtt im trying to decide if theyre is a better place to put 75% of my stack in but this early on ur either busting up or busting out. Busting up here means you should make the money even this early on.
Aggression is the key and i reckon a push here is worth it. You have to play to win and two betters b4 u is like a good dohnut. very good but potentially very messy. see what ive done there? eh eh !?

The all in push with a pp is classically how i play against a rasier so all those who say fold i now know why that type of play is effective.
How could you fold AK so early on?
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realgenius
Old 07-24-2005, 02:22 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Why did you reraise preflop???
This is a true story. I'm not a paid actor. FTR does not guarantee any results. People can and do lose money when playing poker.
 
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elanto
Old 07-24-2005, 08:49 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realgenius
Why did you reraise preflop???
what do u mean do u want him to limp and then push or...explain yourself b/c i thought his pre flop raise was fine, he should have raised more though, about calling the all in raise im not sure, what was the buy in for this tourney??


-anto
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Pingviini
Old 07-25-2005, 01:38 PM #18 (permalink)  
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You could've raised more PF since you already had a caller, I would've made it round 120-140 to isolate or to take it down right here.

Yes, you are getting pretty good odds BUT you are _gambling_ for most of your stack and it is still early. I wouldnt make a call but if you think that you are skilled below average in the tournament you might want to take more flips.

I think I would call the short stack's AI because he might go AI with much lesser holdings but you have to respect the call.

I Fold.

* Dealing down cards **
Dealt to WhileTrue [ Kh, Ah ]
Tenacious911 folds.
durchbraten folds.
ladyfingers folds.
Thong_Hunter calls (30)
johnnieboy4 folds.
WhileTrue raises (100) to 100
minicraps folds.
Thong_Hunter calls (725)
WhileTrue raises (1310) to 1410
Thong_Hunter calls (310)
Thong_Hunter is all-In.
"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
 
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