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HeAVyB101
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02-20-2009, 05:45 PM
Post subject: HEM graph, negative non-showdown winnings
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
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Here's the deal...
After 3500 hands of 25nl full ring my average profit is 5bigbets/100hands. So $2.50 every 100 hands at 25nl isn't bad but... my HEM graph shows my non-showdown winnings declining quite a bit and I feel like I'm losing out on a lot of money when I look at it. Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have access to the graph to show, but I'm curious if this is normal or if there is something I need to be doing to stabilize this.
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Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Well, imo it depends on how much you multi table. It seems to me that a lot of the multi tablers (6-8+ tables) have negative non-showdown winnings. And I think this might be because they don't get as good of reads on opponents to make more moves. I've dropped back down to 1-4 tables and my non showdown winnings have been going up pretty decently. Just my two cents.
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HeAVyB101
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
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Yeah, as of right now I 4 table. It's just a question of whether my hourly profit will be larger or smaller if i decrease tables. And there's no way to do that other than get a large sample of both.
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Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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See a friend of mine asked me why I only played 1-4 tables and how much I would make. I told him and he didn't believe me until I showed him my graphs. He was dumbfounded lol. We are both on a an op where we grind a small amount into a decent roll starting at 2nl.
Well he USED TO multi table up to 9 tables. I've swung him over to 1-4 tabling  . I tried out multitabling and it worked, but just not as well as lowering the number of tables. I can pull off bluffs (yes even at 2nl lol) that I would never have attempted if I wasn't able to pay as much attention. It's pretty obvious to see when they are on the flush draw (the same one you were on) that didn't come in. And you can throw out a bet and take it down. Non showdown winnings go up .
Like I said though, this is only amazingly simple because of the stakes I play. You said you were playing 25nl (or FL?) Either way, you are playing larger stakes so its harder to do. Anyways, its ok if your nonshowdown winnings are in the red. Don't put too much stress on it imo.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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I have the same issue. I think it has a lot to do with my playing style where I routinely open for 4xBB+ and fold the flop when I don't hit and face aggression. Most of my winnings come from my AI plays, which is why it's skewed. I've been working more to 3bet a wet flop. This seems to be closing the gap, especially with a c-bet on the turn. I'm not profitable yet with non-showdowns, but I'm getting better.
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HeAVyB101
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
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I have the same play style as you KB. I like being the aggressor and playing pots against large stacks so I can get all their money on the table. My all in profits graph is through the roof which is nice.
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Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
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POKEMONS
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
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Seriously why does everybody fret about their non-showdown line?
In loose-passive games, which is most likely what you are playing in at micros, your red line will be negative.
Consequently, if you play in weak-tight games, you'll likely be winning money in non-showdown pots.
The green line is pretty much the only line that matters anyways.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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There's also a lot of merit to the multi-tabling bot syndrome. I normally play 4-6 tables, and stuff becomes pretty automatic. I normally start off with my default TAG style, running about 15/10 or so, and before I know it I'll be down on a couple of tables because I may have been paying attention to a particular player, but not necessarily the table. More often than not, the table will be full of nits and I wasn't paying attention. In these cases, I bump up my play to 25/18 or so, and the profits start coming in. I can usually do this profitably for 6-10 orbits, then lock it back down after the table pegs me with a more aggresive style. This is also when I normally hit my big AI pots.
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