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nick87

08-16-2004, 01:36 AM Post subject: Help with this scenario

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 53

I've been reading alot about poker and I've learned several tricks. One of these tricks is if you have second highest pair off the flop, and you want to know if someone else has the higher pair or better, bet alittle and if they just call, they probably don't have it, if they raise, they probably do have it.

Well, this little trick has helped me out quite a bit. However the other night, I ran into a scenario that kind of flushed that strategy down the toilet.

I was blind with JTos. The only other caller was the girl directly to my right. (on the button) The flop comes Ac Jd 3d. I bet and the girl calls. I'm
assuming she doesn't have the Ace.

A rag comes on the turn. I bet 4xBB (which at this point isn't all that much yet) to keep her from catching the flush if she has one. But she calls.

The river comes another diamond.

What do I do at this point? I'm not sure if she has the flush because calling my bets would be a horrible play, but these people I play with suck. What should I have done before the 3rd diamond?

Is this just a bad beat or what?

Well, my next decision was a bad play on my part but an even worse play on her part. Throughout the game I got a few tells on her. This hand told me she was planning on bluffing. So I went all-in. If she was going to bluff this round, she would fold. At worst, she probably had two crap cards that were suited (diamonds) and would hopefully make the right decision and fold with such a low flush.

She thought and she thought and she thought. Then called. She had 8d 2d.

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Humphrind

08-16-2004, 02:18 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

I'm gonna take a stab and say this was in a freeroll or low limit tournament (no more than $10) People, even with position, rarely play 82s.

It looks like you discovered the double edge of your sword.

By underbetting to "feel her out" you gave her the pot odds to chase after her flush.

I ran into the same scenario on the opposite end. I was delt 8c 4c in the big blind. It was limped around to me, so I checked. The flop gave 2

s. I checked and called a minimum raise. The turn completed my flush. I raised big, he called. The river didn't give a club, so the only thing I had to worry about was a higher flush. He went all-in. I was very nervous, but called.

He fliped over his pocket aces, and lost to my 84. I felt kinda bad. But I still raked in the chips.

Your strategy is not bad. But on that hand, you decided that since your cards aren't good enough, you will just out-bet your opponent. Very wrong. If it were me in that hand, I would have called with a pair of Aces. You can show weakness by overbetting just as well as you can by underbetting or checking.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Toasty

08-16-2004, 09:22 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

You have to remember too that sometimes no matter what you bet they are going to call call call.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Krapp

08-19-2004, 06:40 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 313

(1) Betting second button is risky especially if you are first to act. I would of either bet like you did or check and maybe bet on the turn if she passed.
(2) I would also keep the bets around 2x-3xBB in your situation and bet 2-3x BB on the river. You could try betting a little bigger on the river, just to represent your hand might have improved.

(3) If you pass the river, you show weakness. By keeping the bets low, you arent very committed if she raises big (which she would do if she caught the flush) and you can fold.
(4) Assuming she had 2 diamonds in her hand, you would win money on this play when she didnt catch the flush. If she didnt hit on the river, she would fold ( you would get about 4xBB 2/3 of the time [assuming you are betting 2xBB each round]). When she hit on the river, you would lose 6xBB, 1/3 of the time. Overall you would make 2xBB per hand like this. The tough part is that she might have an Ace so this play is better if you are in position

I like betting the second button more when I am in position. Its a 50/50 for me if I would bet out-of-position. If I did bet, it would be a small bet (1x-2x BB). Overall I dont expect to win much with 2nd button (2nd highest pair), so I dont bet much.

Fnord

08-19-2004, 07:04 AM Post subject: Re: Help with this scenario

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick87

A rag comes on the turn. I bet 4xBB (which at this point isn't all that much yet) to keep her from catching the flush if she has one. But she calls.

So wrong.

This is why I hate small bets. Trying to read someone lame enough to open limp from the button is an exercise in futility. You probably gave her correct implied pot odds to chase her hand, and chase she did. Betting just tied you to the pot.

If the blinds are big, I gamble here. If the blinds are small, bet the flop (I like 3/4 pot these days) if she's capable of folding. If she's a calling station, check/fold or check/call if her bet is a joke. You got to show loose/passive calling stations a hand and beat them over the head with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

08-19-2004, 07:35 AM

#6 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

He fliped over his pocket aces, and lost to my 84. I felt kinda bad. But I still raked in the chips.

No wonder you guys hate limit. Mr. Pocket Aces BEGGED you to take his chips and you did. Beating bad players isn't just about playing hands with a pre-flop edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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