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bobdor
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05-24-2008, 06:40 PM
Post subject: help with QQ overpair
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minnesota, US
Posts: 35
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed)
BB ($3.40)
UTG ($5.87)
MP ($5.52)
Hero ($7.40)
Button ($2.43)
SB ($2.62)
Preflop: Hero is CO with  
1 fold, MP raises to $0.1, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB calls $0.08, 1 fold.
Flop: ($0.35)    (3 players)
SB bets $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, SB calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50.
Turn: ($2.60)  (3 players)
SB bets $1.77 (All-In), MP calls $1.77, Hero calls $1.77.
River: ($7.91)  (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP bets $2.9 (All-In), Hero calls $2.90.
Final Pot: $13.71
I'm not sure about this hand. Looking back, I guess I should have re-raised the min-raise pre-flop. On the flop, I was pretty sure SB was on the jack, but I didn't have a real read on MP. I didn't think either of them flopped the straight though, and didn't think of the implications of the Queen on the river.
After the flop, should I have been more aggressive (with the scary straight?) or considered folding?
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DocRazor
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05-24-2008, 11:10 PM
Post subject: Re: help with QQ overpair
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#2 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 17
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bobdor
Looking back, I guess I should have re-raised the min-raise pre-flop.
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3bet PF as you mentioned, is definitely a good idea. I might be wrong in my thinking, and if I am somebody correct me, but with that flop and the number of draws that it presents, I think I just call behind and hope for a cheap showdown. I've found that at the micros a push usually means they either have something or absolute air. So with the SB push on the turn I think I give it up here. As played, on the river I would tell myself to give it up but unfortunately I would probably call.
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VoidCog
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High Card
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 11
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I've been playing for about three months, keep that in mind when you read this, heh.
I probably would have reraised the minraise to about 6xBB. After you reraised post-flop and got two callers, I'd watch out. It's fair to assume that one of them has an open-ender. The SB may have even flopped a straight, and went all in when he saw the turn didn't complete a flush. When your Queen came on the river, that's not a good thing -- it gives you trips, but any Ten beats you. You're getting 3:1 to call, but you know you're almost certainly beaten.
I guess you've just got to go off of you past hands with this player. All you're holding is a bluff-catcher. Given what you know of these players, would they both go all in with something that doesn't beat trips? When there is a clear straight on the board? I would tend to think that one of them has got it, and I would begrudgingly toss my trips and cut my losses. No sense throwing good money after bad. It sucks, but you've gotta do it sometimes.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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shove the turn. mp most likely doesn't have a made hand yet, but looks like he's ready to pay a lot to get there.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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MuddyWicket
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK, Brighton
Posts: 368
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yeah i like shoving the turn and making drawing hands pay as much as possible which they love to do.
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bobdor
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minnesota, US
Posts: 35
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Yeah, I think shoving the turn would have been the best, and I should have folded on the river as played. Three-way pots are tricky  I guess I just need to remember not to try to get fancy and stay aggressive, since I probably could have won/been+ev 3betting PF or shoving on the turn. I think the table had me frustrated because they weren't calling ANYTHING from me. I'll have to watch for that happening in the future also.
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Avenger0
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Well, betting the river might depend on the actual river card, can't it? If it is scary, check. If blank, bet.
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bobdor
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minnesota, US
Posts: 35
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By the way, SB had AJ and MP had 8To.
I can't believe MP called SB's all-in with an open ender.
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xptboy
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Straight
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 187
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I would've raised to 20 or 24 preflop, a minbet from MP hardly let's us know what kind of card range he could be in
on the turn you should've shoved or folded depending on whether you think SB is weak or strong, on the river I would've guessed someone had a straight and since two players went all-in on a straight board I'd assume one of them had a straight
and we're playing at micro stakes right now, there are a lot of players who don't know the value of hands, odds on draws and do some stuff compleely out of this world and we should look to exploit these easy fish
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xptboy
on the turn you should've shoved or folded depending on whether you think SB is weak or strong, on the river I would've guessed someone had a straight and since two players went all-in on a straight board I'd assume one of them had a straight
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folding isn't an option on the turn really. sb is a 1/2 stack and you usually can't fold strong overpairs to 1/2 stacks. i think shoving is like the only thing you can do here really.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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asdpikas
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,056
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3bet preflop
cant let those speculative hands in cheap, or low aces/kings.
Your QQ is a good hand, but if a K or A comes on the flop, ur bad, so u cant let ppl in to see the flop cheap, especially multiway
As played, shove turn
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"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
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xptboy
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Straight
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 187
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by xptboy
on the turn you should've shoved or folded depending on whether you think SB is weak or strong, on the river I would've guessed someone had a straight and since two players went all-in on a straight board I'd assume one of them had a straight
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folding isn't an option on the turn really. sb is a 1/2 stack and you usually can't fold strong overpairs to 1/2 stacks. i think shoving is like the only thing you can do here really. |
ur right, I forgot what the stack sizes were
EDIT: well obviously there's exceptions to every situation but this isn't one of them
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Robb
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05-29-2008, 11:31 PM
Post subject: Re: help with QQ overpair
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#13 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DocRazor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bobdor
Looking back, I guess I should have re-raised the min-raise pre-flop.
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3bet PF as you mentioned, is definitely a good idea. I might be wrong in my thinking, and if I am somebody correct me, but with that flop and the number of draws that it presents, I think I just call behind and hope for a cheap showdown. I've found that at the micros a push usually means they either have something or absolute air. So with the SB push on the turn I think I give it up here. As played, on the river I would tell myself to give it up but unfortunately I would probably call. |
This is wrong thinking. Hero has a 3 outs to the 2nd nut straight, and 2 outs for the set, both of which almost surely win at showdown. Hero has a combo hand that is very likely to be ahead right now and pretty likely to improve before the hand is over. We've gotta bet the flop, and follow up with another bet on the turn, maybe fade the river if we haven't improved and think the draws came in.
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