|
Rockymv
|
05-30-2006, 02:28 AM
Post subject: Help me raise my VP$IP
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
|
|
I've only got 4k hands, but my VP$IP is consistently around 12%, with my PF raise at 8%.
I'm raising pairs in all positions, AJs+, AQo+, KQs in EP, adding in AJo and KQo in MP, and adding in suited aces and suited connectors in late position. I hardly ever limp.
How do I get my VP$IP up?
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
thnwkd
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bahamas
Posts: 436
|
|
full ring/6 max?
Are you winning?
why does it need to be up?
|
Success is how high you bounce after hitting bottom.
IslandGrinder
|
|
Rockymv
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
|
|
Every recommendation I've seen says it should be higher. I'm winning, but if my VP$IP was higher I'd be winning more. I play full ring.
|
|
|
|
zook
|
|
05-30-2006, 05:04 AM
Post subject: Re: Help me raise my VP$IP
|
#4 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
I've only got 4k hands, but my VP$IP is consistently around 12%, with my PF raise at 8%.
I'm raising pairs in all positions, AJs+, AQo+, KQs in EP, adding in AJo and KQo in MP, and adding in suited aces and suited connectors in late position. I hardly ever limp.
|
I think you must be having a bad run of cards. I play very similar cards and have a VP$IP of 21% over 5k hands. In fact I'm trying to lower it by throwing out AJo and being more selective about playing suited aces and connectors in LP. The only cards I can think of that I play and you don't are occasionally open-raising K9s+ from LP and limping unsuited connectors from after multiple limpers. I'm not sure I can recommend these plays, but it's the only difference I can think of.
|
|
|
|
spino1i
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
|
|
I have stats of 13/5/4.3 and have been having no problems with 600 NL. Playing tight is fine.
|
|
BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Your stats are fine.
|
|
|
|
Werddown
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 302
|
|
Not to hijack this thread or anything, but how is the post flop aggression factor determined ?
What's a high and a low post flop aggression factor?
|
|
|
|
saywhat2
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
|
|
Tight is Right!
|
|
|
|
AHiltz
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
|
|
I misread
|
|
|
|
biondino
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
|
|
I'm not sure that's what he was asking? If you mean Poker Tracker's post-flop aggression factor, it means the number of times you bet post-flop + number of times you raise post-flop divided by the number of times you call post-flop.
IMHO, a PFAF od 1 or less is passive, and more than about 1.6 or so is aggressive. Mine is currently 3 and I am looking to reduce it by at least .5 as I think I scare off too many worse hands post-flop while staying in too many hands where by rights I should be folding (and now that I am playing $50-$100NL some of the time, this is ebcoming increasingly obvious).
|
|
|
|
Werddown
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 302
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by biondino
IMHO, a PFAF od 1 or less is passive, and more than about 1.6 or so is aggressive.
|
By this standard, it seems that most of the players on stars are pretty aggressive at the .05/.10 level.
Then again the players I am looking at I only have 100 or so hands recorded for, so that could be a large part of it.
I do notice however that most of them with 50%+ VP$IP have a really low aggression factor  (calling station)
|
|
|
|
Anaemik
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 121
|
|
Poker Sherlock doesn't classify a full ring player as a shark until they have a V$IP of 14% or less.
I think your stats are fine for full ring.
6 max, I'd be looking to play about 21% of hands.
|
|
Bloodninja: I cast Lvl 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman...
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
What is V$IP/VP$IP?
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
biondino
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
|
|
Voluntarily Put [currency] Into Pot - i.e. made a pre-flop bet of any size in any position other than BB, or raised/called a raise in the BB.
6max I play about 26% of hands - the top 5% or so of that is entirely position/table texture-based rather than cards-based.
|
|
|
|
Anaemik
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 121
|
|
"6max I play about 26% of hands - the top 5% or so of that is entirely position/table texture-based rather than cards-based."
I think this is pretty much dependent on the game. I think anything between 20 and 30% is reasonable, depending on the tpye of table you're sat at.
Having said that, I do have more limit than NL experience, so things mights be different.
|
|
Bloodninja: I cast Lvl 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman...
|
|
spino1i
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by biondino
I'm not sure that's what he was asking? If you mean Poker Tracker's post-flop aggression factor, it means the number of times you bet post-flop + number of times you raise post-flop divided by the number of times you call post-flop.
IMHO, a PFAF od 1 or less is passive, and more than about 1.6 or so is aggressive. Mine is currently 3 and I am looking to reduce it by at least .5 as I think I scare off too many worse hands post-flop while staying in too many hands where by rights I should be folding (and now that I am playing $50-$100NL some of the time, this is ebcoming increasingly obvious).
|
Trust me you dont want to try to become more passive.. the more aggressive, the better, generally.. Scaring away people is fine.. start adding more bluffs into your game (and watch your aggression factor shoot up even more! )
|
|
BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
|
|
Krieg1984
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 93
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
What is V$IP/VP$IP?
|
Do you have pokertracker, BankIt???
|
Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise  "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
rocky, what are your stats on the button and CO?
|
|
|
|
strawman
|
|
05-31-2006, 09:35 AM
Post subject: Re: Help me raise my VP$IP
|
#19 (permalink)
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
I
How do I get my VP$IP up?
|
Enter every pot? 
|
|
|
|
salsa4ever
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
|
|
I'm at 17/7. I'm at 40-60% VPIP for the following hands: 33, KJo, 44, Q9s, 22, KTs, A6s, 97s, A8s
But your stats seem about in the ball park of good play
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
|
|
|
SinkRox
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
|
|
I have an awesome solution on looseining up your game... watch the cardrunners.com videos.. most are 6max but you get a great feel for how to play semi lag 
|
|
Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
20/10/3.95 VP$IP 6max (lol@aggro factor)
14/8/2 VP$IP Full ring
Your stats are fine if you are making money. The only reason you would increase it is if a number of multiway pots begin to take place in which case i like to fish a lot with implied odds.
I personally add a huge range from HJ/CO/Button from playing 6max lhe when i can put my opponents on a predictable range but thats a personal thing.
Salsa4ever hit that sort of range K9s any PP QJs etc.
Demipardigm had a good post about preflop hand selection but you would need to dig for that, its the one i like.
|
|
|
|
Rockymv
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lukie
rocky, what are your stats on the button and CO?
|
button is 17/12
CO is 13/11
|
|
|
|
Jimmy Mac
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
|
|
Demi's post : http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-20631.htm
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
play all sorts of hands in position, with calls and raises
|
|
|
|
Rockymv
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
|
I'm aware that this style of LAgg play becomes necessary at higher levels to exploit the TAggs. Would this be as effective at 50NL? If not, at what level does LAggy play really start to be important?
|
|
|
|
spino1i
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
|
I'm aware that this style of LAgg play becomes necessary at higher levels to exploit the TAggs. Would this be as effective at 50NL? If not, at what level does LAggy play really start to be important? |
I think this is more myth and less fact. At least for full ring. I can tell you at 600 NL LAgs arent exploiting any TAgs..
|
|
BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
|
|
stuck
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 586
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
I'm aware that this style of LAgg play becomes necessary at higher levels to exploit the TAggs. Would this be as effective at 50NL? If not, at what level does LAggy play really start to be important?
|
It's my understanding that you can still win money playing standard TAGG at least up until 200NL.
It works at 50NL, you just really have to work at it. Raise, raise, raise. Never relent with the raising. And show -- constantly remind them -- that you will raise with anything (I mean *anything* in position (until they catch on)). Eventually you can tilt the table, and all the money will come to you. Also - re-raise PF with rags. Show your bluffs. Force them to move beyond the first level of thinking into them thinking: "He's got crap!". If someone plays back at you and you don't have a hand, its easy to lay down. It's hard to overcome the weak/tight texture of the 50NL full ring tables, but it's possible. When you get a made hand, drop the hammer.
Also, at 50NL, don't be afraid to raise it (with position - always with position) (standard 4x + 1/limper) with 1-2 limpers ahead of you. You'd be surprised at how often they fold, even with you showing bluffs left and right. If one calls, you often pick up the pot with a c-bet.
In general, it's much easier at the 6-max tables. You should probably play some 6-max anyway. It greatly improves your post-flop game, which is essential for playing LAGGy anway.
Just don't be reckless: you CANNOT make other people fold. What you can do is scare them, and keep doing so until they realize that they have no reason to be scared by your bets/raises. That's when you wait for a monster, and clean up.
|
|
If I had a hammer
I'd drop in the morning
I'd drop in the evening..
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Krieg1984
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
What is V$IP/VP$IP?
|
Do you have pokertracker, BankIt??? |
No.
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
|
|
At 50nl i played 14/8 and killed.
If you feel like opening up your game:
1. Raise almost all pairs (at least 55+) in all positions including early position, but excluding the blinds. Limp behind with the small pairs if there are at least two limpers, otherwise raise behind one limper.
2. Open raise or limp behind with any two unsuited cards higher than ten in the last three positions.
3. Open raise or limp behind with any two suited cards higher than 8 in the last three positions.
4. Open raise or limp behind with any suited Aces, suited connectors down to 45s, and suited gaps down to 79 suited in the last three positions.
5. Open raise or limp behind any two connected or gap cards higher than 560/57o on the button.
6. Open raise or limp behind with and suited aces, suited kings, suited queens, or suited jacks on the button.
7. Be more willing to play dominated hands like KT, KJ, QJ, AT, KQ, QT, JT and have the discipline to lay them down when necessary.
Thats what I have been doing to open up my game. However, i wouldn't get too loose at 50nl. A 14/8 game crushes that stake, and with the generally lack of folding equity, its probably optimal.
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
|
I'm aware that this style of LAgg play becomes necessary at higher levels to exploit the TAggs. Would this be as effective at 50NL? If not, at what level does LAggy play really start to be important? |
I've never understood the argument that you have to play loose to exploit tight players.
An overly loose/laggy player gets crushed on a table full of GOOD Taggs. Debate away.
|
|
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lukie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
|
I'm aware that this style of LAgg play becomes necessary at higher levels to exploit the TAggs. Would this be as effective at 50NL? If not, at what level does LAggy play really start to be important? |
I've never understood the argument that you have to play loose to exploit tight players.
An overly loose/laggy player gets crushed on a table full of GOOD Taggs. Debate away. |
agreed
just play more hands to encourage action on big hands and to create problems for opps when it seems you missed.
You dont have to play lagg, my personal thoughts are that about 18-22% is just about a right balance for making big hands and encouraging others to pay you off.
|
|
|
|
jackvance
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rockymv
I'm aware that this style of LAgg play becomes necessary at higher levels to exploit the TAggs. Would this be as effective at 50NL? If not, at what level does LAggy play really start to be important?
|
You don't play Lagg to exploit the (good) Taggs. You play Lagg to take the fish's money faster than the Tagg can.*
Second reason is that you want to try and get a rise out of people. If you can get under someone's skin, they will make mistakes.
However, playing Lagg doesn't in any way mean you'll be taking the money away from the good Tagg at the table who manages to stay calm. Not at all.
* I got this idea - or to be more exact, explanation for my experiences - from a thread on 2+2. Sklansky made a post there advocating nutcamping and he got ripped asunder by the regulars. And then this excellent point basically came through.. you don't play Lagg because it is an ideal strategy or anything, you play Lagg because currently the way that NLHE is played is very aggressive, and Lagg can exploit this way better than Tagg can.
|
|
|
|
SinkRox
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
|
|
I think the term Lagg is thrown around alot, and often said meaning sLagg.
(how often do you hear the term sLag? only lags and tags).
|
|
Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
