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Help me extract value here..

  
 
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Marbleboy
Old 04-27-2009, 09:13 AM     Post subject: Help me extract value here.. #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 41
Marbleboy
I just joined the table, mybe 5 mins?. I was worried about FD but still checked anyway, right? wrong?

***** Hand History for Game 8019090342 *****
$50 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, April 27, 05:05:22 EDT 2009
Table Table 125486 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: Ehtna ( $50.45 USD )
Seat 9: Marbleboy888 ( $33.19 USD )
Seat 2: PotSmasha ( $25.34 USD )
Seat 1: WobbDogga ( $32.77 USD )
Seat 6: benni_ffm ( $10 USD )
Seat 7: bloukk ( $43.60 USD )
Seat 8: delete461 ( $10.44 USD )
Seat 4: gocoffeecup ( $3.62 USD )
Seat 10: marrybear ( $11.85 USD )
Seat 3: vilvon ( $50 USD )
Ehtna posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
benni_ffm posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Marbleboy888 [ Ac As ]
bloukk folds
delete461 folds
Marbleboy888 raises [$2 USD]
marrybear folds
WobbDogga calls [$2 USD]
PotSmasha folds
vilvon folds
gocoffeecup folds
Ehtna folds
benni_ffm folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, Ad, 4c ]
Marbleboy888 checks
WobbDogga checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
Marbleboy888 bets [$2.26 USD]
WobbDogga calls [$2.26 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
Marbleboy888 bets [$6.60 USD]
WobbDogga folds
Marbleboy888 does not show cards.
Marbleboy888 wins $15.41 USD
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-27-2009, 09:14 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 start by betting the flop
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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bjsaust
Old 04-27-2009, 10:00 AM #3 (permalink)  
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bet, raise, bet, raise, etc
Just playing to improve.
 
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Parasurama
Old 04-27-2009, 11:04 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Parasurama
Marbleboy, ask yourself this question: when you raise preflop, get one caller and the flop is AK4, how often are you checking? If the answer to this question doesn't make playing this hand trivial, you have bigger problems than knowing how to extract value with top set.
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chrisa
Old 04-27-2009, 12:07 PM #5 (permalink)  
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If you're worried about the flush draw, bet to make villain pay to see the next card.

You basically have the nuts here so I'll reiterated what everyone has already said: Bet, bet, bet!
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XTR1000
Old 04-27-2009, 12:36 PM #6 (permalink)  
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rarely does one build a pot by checking a flop everyone is cbetting with everything. also, accept that sometimes ranges are so weak that you wont get more than one bet.
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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linaker
Old 04-27-2009, 06:15 PM #7 (permalink)  
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The point of slowplaying is to give your opponent a chance to improve his hand to second best and try to make out that you did not hit the flop hard. After that flop, a diamond on the turn or a Q, J, T could improve his hand enough to beat you. Checking the flop might persuade him you are less likely to have an Ace, but as the next card is a King that does not help much. Bet out on the flop. If he folds, there was just no further money to be extracted on this hand.
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LawDude
Old 04-27-2009, 06:36 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linaker
The point of slowplaying is to give your opponent a chance to improve his hand to second best and try to make out that you did not hit the flop hard. After that flop, a diamond on the turn or a Q, J, T could improve his hand enough to beat you. Checking the flop might persuade him you are less likely to have an Ace, but as the next card is a King that does not help much. Bet out on the flop. If he folds, there was just no further money to be extracted on this hand.
This.

Look, people salivate over the opportunity to slowplay but I don't know why. At low limits, you probably would be +EV to simply bet the crap out of any monster hand you flop, because more people call than fold at this level.

But that said, you should only slowplay when three conditions are present: (1) there are no possible draws out there that have a significant likelihood of beating your hand, (2) your reads tell you that Villain will fold to a bet, and (3) your reads tell you that Villain is likely to be induced to bet if you check.

In other words, slowplay is entirely read-based. Here's a post I did that exhaustively treated the topic:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...light=slowplay

So, the answer to your question is you should be extracting maximum value from your monster hands by betting them unless you can safely slow play them AND you have reads that tell you that slow playing will increase the likelihood of extracting value.

Here, you have neither of those things. First, an ace, a king, and 2 diamonds hit the flop. So for all you know, Villain is sitting there with QJ, QT, JT, or 2 diamonds. So what the heck are you doing giving him a free card to draw to a possible straight or flush?????!???? You HAVE to bet for that reason alone, to price out any draws. Believe me, nothing sucks more than flopping top set, checking the flop, and watching Villain complete a flush or straight on the turn and spewing a bunch of chips when you could have taken down the pot with a flop bet (or at least made the Villain call with bad odds in a long-run positive EV play).

Second, where are the reads that tell you that this Villain won't call a flop bet? You didn't mention any, because you don't have any.

Remember, every time you slowplay, you are voluntarily giving up a chance to put money into the pot when you have the best hand. That's a huge sacrifice you are making. If you are going to make it, you better have some basis for it, based on your observations of how the Villain or Villains is/are playing.
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