Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

Help fix leak

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Robb
Old 10-07-2008, 04:07 AM     Post subject: Help fix leak #1 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
Robb is an unknown quantity at this point
 I've been working on my game, ID'ing leaks at 25nl. BJ suggested I work through my biggest losers at 25nl, try to ID trends. Here are two examples from 10nl. When I play this way at 25nl they turn into huge losers. I tend to not let go of overpairs soon enough at 25nl, stacking off against flushes and set, etc. However, at 10nl, there are times when laying down an over pair is just plain wrong.

Hand 1: villain is 60/15/1 over 50 hands. He's enough of a station that I think I'm ahead through turn. His PFR suggests he's in here w/ Axs, broadways, most pp's, some sc's. He looks like busted spade draw, maybe a combo hand. He could have a 7 or 6s8s or some other monster, but I believe I'm ahead of his range. River worries me, but I'm not laying this down for 40bb in a 160bb pot.

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($14.26)
CO ($15.46)
Hero ($10.00)
SB ($18.13)
BB ($3.03)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 5 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, CO raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.90, 2 folds, CO calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.95, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.95, CO calls $1.95

Turn: ($5.85, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $3.12, CO calls $3.12

River: ($12.09, 2 players)
CO goes all-in $9.49, Hero goes all-in $4.03

[Results Hidden]


Hand 2: Villain is 18/16/1.8 over 400 hands. Check on the turn could be a slow-played flush, but at 10nl they tend to value bet flushes smaller on the river, imo.

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.34)
Hero ($13.95)
BTN ($16.39)
SB ($1.17)
BB ($4.13)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 5 players) Hero is CO
UTG raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.20, 2 folds, BB calls $1.10, UTG calls $0.85

Flop: ($3.65, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $2.02, BB folds, UTG calls $2.02

Turn: ($7.69, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($7.69, 2 players)
UTG goes all-in $5.12, Hero calls $5.12

[Results Hidden]



OK, I've given two hands, and tried to explain my reasoning. My work on HEM leads me to believe I'm +EV making big river calls/bets with overpairs at 10nl, but -EV at 25nl. Hands like these consistently win money at 10nl but consistently lose it at 25nl. Any thoughts?
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
xX zorrito Xx
Old 10-07-2008, 04:24 AM #2 (permalink)  
xX zorrito Xx's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
xX zorrito Xx
Send a message via ICQ to xX zorrito Xx Send a message via AIM to xX zorrito Xx Send a message via MSN to xX zorrito Xx Send a message via Yahoo to xX zorrito Xx
i actually have the same problem only in my case i call thinking i'm more than likely beat but i wanna see... you know what i mean?..

i stopped doing it a lot...
 
Reply With Quote
PlayToWin
Old 10-07-2008, 06:09 AM     Post subject: Re: Help fix leak #3 (permalink)  
PlayToWin's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
PlayToWin is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Hand 1: villain is 60/15/1 over 50 hands.

Hand 2: Villain is 18/16/1.8 over 400 hands. Check on the turn could be a slow-played flush, but at 10nl they tend to value bet flushes smaller on the river, imo.
Robb - You've written some great posts that I've learned from, but I also get the idea that you are fairly Aggro. I've been trying to play a TAGG game and I would hope to get away from both these hands.

Hand 1 - Based on the stats, he is loose and could have easily hit the flop big. You gave him every chance to fold and instead, he goes AI on the river. It's probably not a terrible call, but I'd put him on a set, fold, and move on. Believe me, I've called those river bets too many times myself and I'm still learning to fold.

Hand 2 - Based on the stats, he is tight and you probably shouldn't consider him a donkey. It looks like a flush draw that hit. This guy probably knows about value betting, but he has probably also read the advice that I have about 10NL, which is that it +EV to push a made hand. He disguised his hand on the Turn and shoved the River. With one pair, it's an easy fold I think.

But, I suck at poker and only play 2-tables at once.
Reply With Quote
kmind
Old 10-07-2008, 06:42 AM #4 (permalink)  
kmind's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
kmind is on a distinguished road
 I like both lines. Maybe bet a tad more on the flop in hand 2.

I bet you don't want to hear that response though. Is there anything specific? But like I said I play both the same.
Reply With Quote
Robb
Old 10-07-2008, 12:45 PM #5 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
Robb is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
I like both lines. Maybe bet a tad more on the flop in hand 2.

I bet you don't want to hear that response though. Is there anything specific? But like I said I play both the same.
No, nothing specific. I know that I often push thin value correctly at 10nl, but I push thin/no-value into the wrong villains on the wrong boards at 25nl. I think 10nl villains show down with air/2nd pair so often for stacks, I forget that I probably need a read + solid evaluation of ranges to play an overpair for stacks at 25nl. I'm capable of that - I just don't do it enough.
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
Reply With Quote
PlayToWin
Old 10-08-2008, 07:11 AM #6 (permalink)  
PlayToWin's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
PlayToWin is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
I like both lines..... But like I said I play both the same.
Interesting. I'm kinda dissappointed that more good players didn't chime in.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 07:33 AM #7 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
I like both. If you fold in these spots you'll be a losing player.
Reply With Quote
Galapogos
Old 10-08-2008, 08:48 AM #8 (permalink)  
Galapogos's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
Galapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really nice
 First one's fine.

Second one you should shove the turn to get value from any lone spades he can have since his equity just shot up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
Reply With Quote
bigspenda73
Old 10-08-2008, 09:27 AM #9 (permalink)  
bigspenda73's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
 at least 10 more BBs on the flop in hand 2
Reply With Quote
Pig_Vomit
Old 10-08-2008, 09:34 AM #10 (permalink)  
Straight

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
Pig_Vomit
Finding the same problem moving to 25nl.

Was questioning my self whether their's value in my river calls with over pairs. Kinda sucks that all the regs said it was fine (if thats fine wtf am i doing wrong).
Reply With Quote
jyms
Old 10-08-2008, 01:31 PM #11 (permalink)  
jyms's Avatar
Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
jyms has a spectacular aura aboutjyms has a spectacular aura aboutjyms has a spectacular aura about
 nothing to see here, move along.
YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]
 
Reply With Quote
Robb
Old 10-08-2008, 01:35 PM #12 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
Robb is an unknown quantity at this point
 Thanks, guys. I appreciate the critique. I feel like my 10nl poker has really improved these past few weeks as I've set to work ID'ing leaks.

I think my leak on these hands is ignoring the "signs of strength" like a check-raise on the flop or check/call flop bet turn. I need to carefully watch who is in the hand, use my reads, and plan my play all the way through the river before playing the flop.

Spenda, I don't know why I barely bet half the pot on Hand 2 - I'm a 2/3's PSB typically in that spot. Probably a brain freeze.
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
Reply With Quote
Robb
Old 10-08-2008, 01:48 PM #13 (permalink)  
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
Robb is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
nothing to see here, move along.
LoL.

vnh on the Spinal Tap "volume = 11" avatar.
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:38 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.