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KeeKoLy
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03-31-2009, 05:09 AM
Post subject: Help with draws.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
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EDIT: Mods, sorry for the brain lapse, but this should have been posted in BC forum. Thank You.
Lately while grinding, I find myself not knowing how to approach playing draws. I will list some examples below, but in general here is the issue. If I am first to act and decide to bet my draw at the fishy 2NL tables, i get more callers than I would like, whif on the next card, and then I REALLY don't know what to do. If I decide to check my draw, someone bets enough so that I don't have odds to call with relation to the pot (I have realized most of my poker "schooling" is limit based).
So can someone point me to a good article, or just let me know a good section of a book, or post in this thread how you typically play draws...
1. When first to act?
2. When last?
3. vs. multiple opponents?
4. vs. few op. or HU?
5. Big pot?
6. small pot?
Obviously there are a ton of possible situations, and maybe nobody will want to take the time to discuss this, but if you don't ask you won't know. In general, the fact there are no limits makes it tough for me to play when I don't have a "made hand".
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
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{ Moved from Full Ring }
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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I don't have much to say but check out this bad boy article:
http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....wing-Hands.php
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I confess in quicksand
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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^^^^^^ I hate Rik Mayall, you're avatar really tilts me. ^^^^^
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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Rik who??
Its Hugh Laurie....
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I confess in quicksand
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
^^^^^^ I hate Rik Mayall, you're avatar really tilts me. ^^^^^
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It's funny that avatars bother you so much Carroters LOL...but I'mma have to agree. That avatar really does get on my nerves (no offense Vinland)! Go back to Otto!
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That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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He really looks like a different actor in that then. It still tilts me.
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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You'll have to watch the Black Adder series....then you can curb yout tilting tendancies...
Our British posters here will have a better appreciation for this...
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I confess in quicksand
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Boog you have no right to criticise anyones avatar for being annoying! 
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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My peeve is on PS at full ring, about half the players have pet dogs in their avatars.....I turn them off so I just see blank circles...
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I confess in quicksand
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Lucothefish
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 700
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Rik Mayall? From bottom? the young ones? drop dead fred? Come on Vinland, you know rik Mayall.
Also, Hugh Laurie and blackadder both rock, so keep him \m/
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<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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People with no avatars on stars piss me off.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Yez Is can tells what the cards they have becos of the avatar cos it sez a lot and lot about of their personalitiez.
People wiv fish avatars is usually fish.
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Ragnar4
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03-31-2009, 05:20 PM
Post subject: Re: Help with draws.
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#14 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KeeKoLy
EDIT: Mods, sorry for the brain lapse, but this should have been posted in BC forum. Thank You.
Lately while grinding, I find myself not knowing how to approach playing draws. I will list some examples below, but in general here is the issue. If I am first to act and decide to bet my draw at the fishy 2NL tables, i get more callers than I would like, whif on the next card, and then I REALLY don't know what to do. If I decide to check my draw, someone bets enough so that I don't have odds to call with relation to the pot (I have realized most of my poker "schooling" is limit based).
So can someone point me to a good article, or just let me know a good section of a book, or post in this thread how you typically play draws...
1. When first to act?
2. When last?
3. vs. multiple opponents?
4. vs. few op. or HU?
5. Big pot?
6. small pot?
Obviously there are a ton of possible situations, and maybe nobody will want to take the time to discuss this, but if you don't ask you won't know. In general, the fact there are no limits makes it tough for me to play when I don't have a "made hand".
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I think you need to take your analysis a step further.
How would you play a 4 out draw in all 6 of those situations?
How about an 8 or 9 out draw?
What about 13-15 outs?
21 confirmed outs?
Play differs greatly on the flop, than the turn, DUCY?
What about your opponents? Are they bluffy? Weak/tight? Spewtardedly aggressive? Can you get your moneys worth out of them if you catch good, or do you need the pot to totally justify your outs?
Most importanlty: Do they have the stack to justify the call when you're on a draw, and do you think you can get Break-even or better out of them when you do catch?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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KeeKoLy
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03-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Post subject: Re: Help with draws.
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#15 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KeeKoLy
EDIT: Mods, sorry for the brain lapse, but this should have been posted in BC forum. Thank You.
Lately while grinding, I find myself not knowing how to approach playing draws. I will list some examples below, but in general here is the issue. If I am first to act and decide to bet my draw at the fishy 2NL tables, i get more callers than I would like, whif on the next card, and then I REALLY don't know what to do. If I decide to check my draw, someone bets enough so that I don't have odds to call with relation to the pot (I have realized most of my poker "schooling" is limit based).
So can someone point me to a good article, or just let me know a good section of a book, or post in this thread how you typically play draws...
1. When first to act?
2. When last?
3. vs. multiple opponents?
4. vs. few op. or HU?
5. Big pot?
6. small pot?
Obviously there are a ton of possible situations, and maybe nobody will want to take the time to discuss this, but if you don't ask you won't know. In general, the fact there are no limits makes it tough for me to play when I don't have a "made hand".
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I think you need to take your analysis a step further.
How would you play a 4 out draw in all 6 of those situations?
How about an 8 or 9 out draw?
What about 13-15 outs?
21 confirmed outs?
Play differs greatly on the flop, than the turn, DUCY?
What about your opponents? Are they bluffy? Weak/tight? Spewtardedly aggressive? Can you get your moneys worth out of them if you catch good, or do you need the pot to totally justify your outs?
Most importanlty: Do they have the stack to justify the call when you're on a draw, and do you think you can get Break-even or better out of them when you do catch? |
For a minute there I thought someone changed the title of my post to "let talk about avatars". Thanks for a real reply Ragnar. I understand why play will differ greatly between the flop and turn, as you still have two cards to come vs. one. And I also realize that there are many types of draws like you point out, buy I wasn't sure anyone would answer if I made the question that in depth...
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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Yeah sorry about that....but make sure you check out the article link I posted. Its full of info....
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I confess in quicksand
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vinland
Yeah sorry about that....but make sure you check out the article link I posted. Its full of info....
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Meh it's ok.
To be quite honest, I think that spoon assumes you understand some stuff that the ley beginner may not have any clue about. In order to get the most out of that article, I think you need to be an intermediate player. I also feel like there is so much more out there when considering draws, that just flat doesn't get covered.
All Spoon talks about is calling, along with a 3 paragraph interlude about the "free card play".
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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My avatar is better than your avatars  .
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,460
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Yez Is can tells what the cards they have becos of the avatar cos it sez a lot and lot about of their personalitiez.
People wiv fish avatars is usually fish.
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ive actually found this to be sort of true.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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