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oskar
Old 07-15-2008, 10:40 PM     Post subject: Having a little limit-he adventure #1 (permalink)  
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 It's been fun so far. I'm actually collecting chips at a record rate although I haven't really figured this game out.
This is from a 10c/20c table.
I had more luck with 15/30 frankly... I think I get what players are doing there. This is just insanity. I mean - I've seen my fair share of 5NL players, but this is just incredible. It's a lot of fun though - all those ridicuous bluffs. - it's like a toothless alligator going after you.
I even made a 5$ pot on the button with a missed flush draw after they checked to me... it's just too tempting.




Can someone tell me if I was an idiot in that hand - I mean, I get the joke on the river, that's why I called the first bet, but...



Party Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (5 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K.
UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 7, 6, 9 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, MP calls, Button folds, SB caps, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 5 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (15 BB) 8 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP raises, SB 3-bets, Hero folds, MP caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

Results in white below:
MP has 6c 3d (straight, nine high).
SB has 9s Qd (straight, nine high).
Outcome: MP wins 12 BB. SB wins 12 BB.
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 12:46 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Well, after a couple of hours I get why this game might not have as much appeal.
You feel just really stupid either way when the river completes a flush and the villain bets for the first time... you can't exactly fold. The number of players willing to chase 5 outs is just incredible, it's really hard to stomach all those beats.
Not to mention that it's just a brainnumbingly dull game... I might play the 15/30 again. That was fun, but sharing every single pot with a minimum of 3 players seems pretty pointless.
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spoonitnow
Old 07-16-2008, 01:02 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 It might seem pointless, but there's a lot to be learned from LHE. It's just a different game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 11:45 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Well, I don't know... I'm the last person to complain when I play against idiots, but at 0.1/0.2 I'm really clueless as to what the strategy could possibly be. If you get called down by a minimum of 3 people it's really hard to expect tptk to hold up... so do you start limping with connectors, suited aces, and just chase the crap out of the board? Seems the right thing to do since you need 2pair+ anyway to take it down. and you're always getting the right odds with nut draws.
0.15/0.30 was a completely different experience though, and it was usually 3 or less people to the flop after a raise.

Then there's people just over or under-valueating their hand to the point of ridiculousness. Some players cap me with second pair no kicker, and in the next hand I get called down with a flopped set...
What are the player notes there? "Got whacked in the head with a hammer as a child" ?
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spoonitnow
Old 07-16-2008, 12:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Do the things you're supposed to do in poker.

Try to avoid making mistakes, and try to induce your opponents into making mistakes.

Check out the limit hold'em forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 12:07 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 I mean I'm really trying to figure it out, and I get stumped every time. I though SB had 9x, 2 pair, a set or an overpair for sure.
when MP just calls on the turn he has to be either still on a draw or a scared pair of something. When he raises the river I'm pretty sure he made it, because what could he have called with on the turn. the old bottom-pair-no-kicker I did not expect.
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
 
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 12:11 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Do the things you're supposed to do in poker.

Try to avoid making mistakes, and try to induce your opponents into making mistakes.

Check out the limit hold'em forum.
This gives a whole new perspective to the game...

I will check out the forum... I might read small-stakes-he again when I have the time, it's been quite a while.
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Chopper
Old 07-16-2008, 02:21 PM #8 (permalink)  
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LHE has ALWAYS helped my NL game immensely. its like the difference between softball and baseball. same basic rules, but quite a different game. each has its sublties, and learning one can only help the other.

LHE is more a drawing game at full ring. sc's and gappers go up in value where KTo goes down. TP just doesnt get it done unless you can significantly shorten the field.

use raises and check/raises to force others to call off two bets cold. sometimes its best to wait for the turn to get the action going because a flop bet, or raise, wont take away any drawing odds (your opponents dont often make a mistake by calling 11:1 on the flop). and, other times its best to use the equity in combo draws to pump the pot full of as much money as you can (here you would only raise if it does NOT force anyone to call two bets cold).

these are just a few concepts that come up MUCH more frequently in LHE because of the bet structure.

there is a "sweet science" to LHE just like NL, stud, O8, razz, etc. balance your game out by learning the basics of these. you will then see how the concepts cross-over and help your other games.

good luck.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Andrew
Old 07-16-2008, 02:38 PM #9 (permalink)  
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As a player who was (and is) obsessed with the No-Limit game, I thought I wouldn't ever really take Limit seriously. I switched over midway through last month and have to say that there is real appeal to the game. For me it is the difference between playing Pool or playing Snooker. Limit is my Snooker game, for me it's Chess with cards. And that's great for me.
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 03:38 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Having a great run again at 0.15/.30
This was such a hopeless bluff but I thought there was a slim chance I could make him fold a King, and I would call another bet anyway at this point because I'm an idiot.
Don't tell me that this was a hopeless play, I know - I just thought it was funny. I'm still thinking NLHE - can't just fold third pair to a min-bet.


Party Poker 0.15/0.30 Hold'em (5 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T, T.
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB folds

Flop: (10 SB) K, J, 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP folds,

Turn: (5 BB) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero bets Button folds

Final Pot: 5 BB
Final pot was 2.16$ - the converter tool messed up the whole hand - had to edit it. That would be 7 BB, right - as in big-bet not big-blind?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-16-2008, 05:05 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Let's go all in!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 05:13 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 Yeah, this game would be so much better if you could just bet how much you want. Why hasn't anybody thought of that?
We'll just call it "Hold-Em' Without Limit"... I tell you, this thing would fly!
I continue to do very well at 0.15/30. I really think there is a big problem with half the table going to the flop and calling down with any pair at lower stakes. It just dramatically evens out the odds between the players. It's like a subconscious collective collusion of suckers.
I'm not whining, I'm overrolled for 0.1/0.2 anyway. I think I have a point there . A certain number of calling stations+ makes the game less attractive, not more.
The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-16-2008, 05:27 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Yeah, this game would be so much better if you could just bet how much you want. Why hasn't anybody thought of that?
We'll just call it "Hold-Em' Without Limit"... I tell you, this thing would fly!
no way. Think about the swings! Only the sickest gamblers would dare play surely the purest form of poker ever conceived!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Chopper
Old 07-16-2008, 05:48 PM #14 (permalink)  
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oskar,

move your next few HHs to the LHE forum, as you will get better responses. no offense to anyone here. its just that its such a NL world, and like you said, LHE is boring to most.

nice pf raise. i dont bet the turn. 3rd pair isnt great with flush draw out. if it checks around, i DO bet the turn when the J pairs. its a great scare card. but, as played, i fold to it. 3rd pair just isnt great, w/o reads, in a multiway pot if you cant bluff your villains.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 06:00 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 I think if I did bet the turn he still would have had to call me down with kings.
A lot of these guys double-barrel on a bluff. Since I didn't raise the flop he can't put me on a king, and pretty much has to bet even if he just decided to take a shot at the pot or bets a flushdraw or openender, or even AQ, AT.
My line of thinking was that I did get the right odds to call... this guy has been playing pretty agressively, and I might to be able to give him a wake up call when a T an A or a spade hits. If someone else posted that hand I would just say: fold the turn, too. It's just too marginal.
The As on the river was just a miracle scare card from heaven. It makes pretty much every had that I could have just called down with after raising PF from the BB.
I'm going to take my next hands over to the limit forum, thanks for the advice.
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Chopper
Old 07-16-2008, 06:13 PM #16 (permalink)  
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double barrels are the only thing that works in LHE at low stakes...sometimes all three barrels are necessary. who is folding a flop for one small bet in a limit game? they should, but they dont.

oh, and by the way, i think WAY too much for .25/.50 and you are probably doing the same for .15/.30, fwiw. if someone bets, they likely have something that beats third pair...or has the equity to improve beyond third pair. save your bluff catchers for HU pots.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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spoonitnow
Old 07-16-2008, 06:45 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Do the things you're supposed to do in poker.

Try to avoid making mistakes, and try to induce your opponents into making mistakes.

Check out the limit hold'em forum.
This gives a whole new perspective to the game...

I will check out the forum... I might read small-stakes-he again when I have the time, it's been quite a while.
If you really think about what those two things mean and seek out ways to do them then it probably would bring a new perspective to your game, but from the attitude you're showing in this post it's obvious that you won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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oskar
Old 07-16-2008, 08:37 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 It's certainly good advice, but it's like telling a racecar driver to go faster... It makes sense, but how am I supposed to respond?
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