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vegaas2
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05-21-2005, 12:34 AM
Post subject: Having a hard time calcualting pot odds and implied odds
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 51
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Hey all,
I am fairly new to poker, I have been playing for about a month now.
I have a goal of 10,000 by the begining of May next year and am currently negative 700, but it was negative 900 not long ago. So thats ok, I chalk it up to paying for live lessons.
I have read Phil Hellmuths book, I am in the middle of reading Lee Jones book, and have purchased T.J. Cloutier and Phil Gordons books. So I am doing my studying.
Here is the problem, I am ok at figuring out my outs and the odds on hitting them. What I am having a hell of a time with is figuring out pot odds and implied odds.
I get the basic concept, however; there is nowhere enough time for me to calculate my outs, pot odds and implied odds in the short time I have to make my bet. I try to play tight/aggresive, but with trying to figure all this out, I end up making rash decisions as my timer starts to run out on me.
Does anyone have advice on to easily figure this out. I am not great at math, so it takes me awhile.
Thanks,
Vegaas
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poskid_1982
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 392
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i think all sites have a pot meter where the current pot value is located. as long as you are online just try keeping a calculator handy...I've never tried this but I think it would work...Especially if you have a problem with math.
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Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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You don't usually need a calculator. It usually isn't close. Just get approxomates and that will carry you through.
But check this page out: http://www.flopturnriver.com/chart_pot_odds.html
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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smcicr
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 31
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i tend to use the following as an estimate - it's pretty close.
take the number of outs you have (you say you're ok with that) and for the turn multiply your outs by 4. for the river, multiply your outs by 2.
so for example, if you have two over cards with no other draws after the flop then you have 6 outs to hit. 6 x 4 = 24 so 24 is your percentage of hitting an out which is near enough 3 to 1. so you're looking to have better than 3 to 1 odds in terms of the pot. In this case if you had to bet $2 for a chance of winning a $10 pot it would be mathematically correct to do so.
this is extremely simplified and doesn't get into implied odds and so on (how many more and potentially bigger bets might you have to call depending on your position? remember this is the turn i'm talking about in that example, do you expect to win the hand here or will the river come into play? what are your reads on the table - could you be drawing dead even if you hit your card? etc)
however in terms of trying to get the concept i found this useful. hope it helps.
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"nobody's ugly after 2 am" - bukowski
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vegaas2
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 51
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Ok, smcicr, that does simplify the pot odds for me a bit. Thanks, just curious, why do you multiply your outs by 4 for the turn and 2 for the river?
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vegaas2
Ok, smcicr, that does simplify the pot odds for me a bit. Thanks, just curious, why do you multiply your outs by 4 for the turn and 2 for the river?
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Your odds dwindle while progressing in the hand. And these values give rough estimations which are fairly close to the real odds of making your hand.
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smcicr
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 31
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yup, as bobby says. you could basically look at it as the calculation for the turn is actually calculating the odds of you making your hand in the remaining cards (turn + river) and then when it's just the river you have 50% less chance of hitting the out (1 chance as opposed to 2) so you reduce the number you're multiplying by accordingly.
as to why it's 4 and 2 - they're just numbers that work in relation to the 'proper' figures - ie they're near enough for it not to matter in an on the fly calculation.
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"nobody's ugly after 2 am" - bukowski
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evman150
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 269
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It's 4 and 2 because there are ~50 cards in a deck, not 100. If there were ~100 cards the multipliers would be 2 and 1.
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Light years ahead of the competition.
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vegaas2
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 51
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by evman150
It's 4 and 2 because there are ~50 cards in a deck, not 100. If there were ~100 cards the multipliers would be 2 and 1.
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Now I get the 4 and 2. Thank you.
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