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Jason
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12-29-2004, 09:02 AM
Post subject: Hardest Read: Two Pair
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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When I play hold 'em it seems like my toughest read is two pair. The board tells you when there is potential for a straight or flush. With some analysis, you can put someone on a pocket pair or overcard to match the board for a single pair.
But, two pair is the great unknown and can really throw a monkey wrench into the equation and complicates analysis. I don't really know how to put anyone on two pair.
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- Jason
 
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Post some hands and we can help you out.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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{This post has been removed}
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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That is indeed brutal. So hard to read. It most often comes from someone who limped in and they can do anything at that point - small bet, check-raise, check-call (if they feel like taking chances), even a big bet.
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UncleBuddy
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12-29-2004, 07:14 PM
Post subject: Re: Hardest Read: Two Pair
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#5 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere chasing an open ended straight despite several large raises
Posts: 154
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Shoulders
When I play hold 'em it seems like my toughest read is two pair. The board tells you when there is potential for a straight or flush. With some analysis, you can put someone on a pocket pair or overcard to match the board for a single pair.
But, two pair is the great unknown and can really throw a monkey wrench into the equation and complicates analysis. I don't really know how to put anyone on two pair.
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I can usually spot them with an information raise. 4xBB is usually enough to weed them out. A call on this bet indicates a strong draw or possibly two pair. A raise is usually a made hand.
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
- Claire Wolfe, 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution
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Brodie
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 95
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Any tips in limit, though? It seems the information you can ascertain in limit is much more...ummm...limited.
I find myself getting hammered by two pair more often than I'd like (no straights on the board, no flushes, no board pairing and I have TPTK: bzzzt! The guy who called my pre-flop raise with K4o spiked a 4 on the river for two pair).
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Brodie
"The present success is the hundred failures of the past."
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brodie
Any tips in limit, though? It seems the information you can ascertain in limit is much more...ummm...limited.
I find myself getting hammered by two pair more often than I'd like (no straights on the board, no flushes, no board pairing and I have TPTK: bzzzt! The guy who called my pre-flop raise with K4o spiked a 4 on the river for two pair).
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there's nothing you can do about that except pay them off. if they show aggression on the flop, and again on the turn you should seriously consider dumping your hand instead of spending 2 big bets to find out.
NL is similar. the only difference is your opponents will try and bet an amount that is your "treshold" for calling, ie the maximum amount you will call. underbets and overbets are not so worrysome, but when someone can make it just right that either way i don't feel good folding or calling is a player i need to be extra careful around.
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{This post has been removed}
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brodie
Any tips in limit, though? It seems the information you can ascertain in limit is much more...ummm...limited.
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In NL you only have betting amounts and that tells you... hmmm... he shoved in all of his chips, gee..
In limit there is a much more eligant dance of checks, bets and raises. With practice you can make some pretty good guesses what kind of player is representing what. Unless they're some crazy TAgg like me 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brodie
I find myself getting hammered by two pair more often than I'd like (no straights on the board, no flushes, no board pairing and I have TPTK: bzzzt! The guy who called my pre-flop raise with K4o spiked a 4 on the river for two pair).
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It's a sick joke on the guy with K4o. He pays you off far more often, it's just easy to forget.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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but sometimes hands like K4o make it on from the BB and get lucky. i know i have won some pots when i first sit down at a table and post the blind with trash cards and i end up flopping two pair.
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Brodie
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 95
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And it's very easy to beat me in these circumstances with two pair. Just call all the way to the river and let me be the aggressor. Just in case anyone is taking notes. 
Fortunately I'm not doing that badly, so these circumstances don't hurt as much as they would if I was in the middle of a very bad run of cards.
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Brodie
"The present success is the hundred failures of the past."
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elanto
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,117
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this i have a hard time with; I have AK or AQ so i raise it up and someonce calls me, board comes AAx I bet the pot he goes all in, I call he shows a boat...*sigh*
-anto
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<dwarfman> No I had sex for the first time on 23rd March 2005 at 11.56pm.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elanto
this i have a hard time with; I have AK or AQ so i raise it up and someonce calls me, board comes AAx I bet the pot he goes all in, I call he shows a boat...*sigh*
-anto
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Well consider how many time you're going to get paid off in those situations when he doesn't have the full house. Especially when you catch someone with a worse kicker. Also, consider the possibility of a bluff. Consider the chance that the player plays this way pre-flop with a pair... maybe you can lay a set down. Although it's the hardest thing to do in hold'em
But what about when the board pairs and you have aces-full?
Maybe when the board is AAT and an extremely tight player goes all-in after calling two pre-flop raises... you might find it hard to believe he doesn't have a full house
But if an aggressive player does that move, you will just have to pay him off.
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