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Which hands should I raise UTG?

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AFchung

01-03-2009, 07:27 AM Post subject: Which hands should I raise UTG?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

For basic ABC style poker, what's my UTG range? (coming in for a raise)

Also, what should my raise size be? I currently use 3x for UTG and 4x+1 for all other positions. Is there anything wrong with this?

AQ, AK, 22+? that's the current range right now

edit: FULL RING! sorry, i should've stated that in the first place.

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Blazing_Saddler

01-03-2009, 07:31 AM

#2 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: Walsall

Posts: 65

You will get answers from more experienced players than myself. However this is what I think.

Is this 6 max. If so then your opening range sounds fine.
I wouldn't use a lower bet from UTG. Once on player calls early, others will follow if it is cheap enough.

What stakes are you playing? I like standard 4 x at $10 NL.

*Edit*

For full ring games. I dump AQo and lower PP

Stacks

01-03-2009, 08:20 AM Post subject: Re: Which hands should I raise UTG?

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,605

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

First off, we need to know if this is FR or 6m, so can't really comment on what range is best without that info... However, a few things you can/should consider. First off, it might do you more good to look into your PT/HEM database, and look at how hands performed from specific positions to see which hands are making you money and from where. It would be silly for someone to advocate for you to raise 22 from UTG if you are a big loser with it because you don't play it properly postflop.

Second, you say you raise 3x from UTG, but 4x +1 from all other positions? What is your reasoning for doing this? If you look at this simply from a range perspective, you should have a tighter range in EP, and your range should become weaker in Later positions. It is because of this that, imo, if you are to vary bet sizing that you should raise larger from EP, and less when in LP. That is you want to be building a bigger pot with a tighter range, and keeping the pot smaller with your wider/weaker range.

vclortho

01-03-2009, 12:01 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 22

Long winded reply, and please anyone with more experience than me, shoot this full of holes

I've started to use a variation on the Sklansky hand rankings to determine my raising strategy pre-flop. Basically the groups are as follows:

A: AA, AKs, KKs
B: AK, QQ
C: JJ, TT
D: AQs, AQ, AJs, 99, 88
E: AJ, ATs, KQs, 77, 66, 55
F: AT, KQ, KJs, QJs, 44, 33, 22

What I've tended to do is the following - assuming everyone has limped before me (6-max only, no idea how this would change for full ring):

Early position: Raise with groups A,B,C,D; Call a raise with B,C; Re-raise with A

Mid position: Raise with A,B,C,D,E; Call with C, re-raise with A,B

Late: Raise with A-F; Call with C,D; re-raise A,B

I've found that my profitability has gone up significantly with this, from 33% win after seeing flop, to 55%.

This might be due to other factors as well (sharpening up on reads etc.) but the groupings and playing more strictly have helped.

Now obviously this should be adjusted dependant on table and villians, but for a starting point it works for me.

Anyone here who thinks this needs tweaking?

They called it poker because the word FU<K! was taken...

01-03-2009, 01:20 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

stacks, 22 could be a big loser, but if 33 is a hudge hudge winner that doesn't mean that 22 is that much worse, you need a huge database (one that you probably possess you grindbot) to be able to tell which particular hands perform well

but looking at UTG performance of all pocket pairs 22-66 would be pretty useful

vlkasghsalegiweg: Sklansky hand rankings are for limit, in no limit pocket pairs are stronger than in limit

Stacks

01-03-2009, 05:01 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,605

I agree iopq. I was looking at hands just yesterday and in my DB 22-66 are relatively decent sized winners from UTG, UTG+1, however I'm losing a good share with 77 from those positions. Obviously, 77 will be performing better, but due to variance issues, etc. we won't see that.

I'm just stating that, first off, there are numerous "starting hand charts" on the internet. Many of those can be found on this site. But as everything in poker it really depends on alot of different considerations. A player that is better postflop can stand to open up preflop. Going with this, a player that is worse postflop should probably be tighter preflop. If OP feels he has the ability to make hands like AJo (assuming FR) profitable from EP, and has the Database to prove just that, then imo he should be opening that hand, until proven otherwise.

Obviously you don't want to look at retarded hands like 73s that you misclicked UTG with that spiked a Fullhouse and stacked a limped AA or something. But marginal hands that could go either way (AJ, KQ, 22-55, etc).

Also one thing to consider, being too tight is going to be better than being too loose at low stakes as well as EP. And it's generally better to look at the why, rather than the what or how. Therefore, advising the OP to become active with his study and try to come up with the answer for himself should prove to do more help for him than telling him what to open, and him not fully understand why he should be doing that.

sarbox68

01-03-2009, 10:30 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

For 6m UTG (and 1st 3 positions at FR) my range is mostly 77+,AKo&s,AQs...

at various times I've also thrown in AQo,KQs,AJs,and the rest of the PPs, plus some random SC sh!t if I've been cold decked for a spell and showing ubertight.

I used to auto-raise any PP UTG, but (at least for me) on a history of 750K hands 22-66 are mostly losers -- and even more so when I moved to $25 and people actually started to 3bet/squeeze a little more. So now I just throw 'em in the "mix it up" pot to add a little flavor to my staple sh!t....

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Which hands should I raise UTG?

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