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A Hand That's Been Eating at Me

  
 
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Grinder
Old 02-28-2008, 10:27 PM     Post subject: A Hand That's Been Eating at Me #1 (permalink)  
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Was this played well, or just a bad beat? Your opinions please...

Hand #142419C2FF000077: $5 NL Hold'em
Seat 2: CPAISH (3135.00 in chips)
Seat 3: LuvSak (2950.00 in chips)
Seat 4: DonkeyDonk (1685.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Vladlen (1765.00 in chips)
Seat 9: GrindTheCake (5465.00 in chips)
DonkeyDonk: posts small blind $100
Vladlen: posts big blind $200
Dealt to GrindTheCake [ Kd Ah ]
GrindTheCake: calls
CPAISH: folds
LuvSak: calls
DonkeyDonk: calls
Vladlen: checks
@@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ Qd 4c Kc ]
DonkeyDonk: checks
Vladlen: is all in 1565.0000
GrindTheCake: is all in 5265.0000
LuvSak: is all in 2750.0000
DonkeyDonk: folds
GrindTheCake: returns uncalled bet $2,515
*** TURN *** [ 7c ]
*** RIVER *** [ Qs ]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
LuvSak wins $2,370 with Flush, Ace high
*** SHOW DOWN ***
LuvSak wins $5,495 with Flush, Ace high

I ended up finishing in 4th (not ITM) going all-in short-stacked with KJo with a K on the flop. Villain had 2 pair
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bjsaust
Old 02-28-2008, 10:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Which part of limping AKo UTG did you think was the well played part?
Just playing to improve.
 
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Grinder
Old 02-28-2008, 10:40 PM #3 (permalink)  
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LOL. You know, I just read over the hand before reading your reply and I realized I limped in. Nice donk move on my part. I deserved it to a degree, yet the Villain holding ATs would have called my raise any way, he had been playing semi-loose all game long and getting lucky. Ugh...
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Fnord
Old 02-28-2008, 11:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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*yawn*

The hand is fine. Probably should have raised it pre-flop, but the scope of that discussion is bigger than this hand.
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Ragnar4
Old 02-29-2008, 10:23 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I don't mind the UTG limp. AKo TPTK is almost the nuts at this point in a tourney.

Anyway. You didn't make any mistakes in this hand IMO.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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taipan168
Old 03-02-2008, 09:00 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
I don't mind the UTG limp.
Ummm, why is this? Is this with the intention of limp/re-raising AI? I would just make a standard raise and go from there.

Postflop is played fine, AK TPTK is very often the nuts at this point in the tourney.
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Ragnar4
Old 03-02-2008, 09:57 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I agree taipan that 95% of the time I'm making a standard raise... But you're obviously limp/re-raising AI. AK plays better AI PF in most cases.

But I honestly feel that limping will cause people to try to squeeze with worse hands, and may encourage a shove that is easily callable.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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taipan168
Old 03-02-2008, 10:25 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
I agree taipan that 95% of the time I'm making a standard raise... But you're obviously limp/re-raising AI. AK plays better AI PF in most cases.

But I honestly feel that limping will cause people to try to squeeze with worse hands, and may encourage a shove that is easily callable.
Don't forget that $5.50 SNG opps tend to be loose/passive meaning that they won't necessarily shove AI preflop. What happens if you get three callers and then miss the flop? You've lost a lot of the value of your AK.

When you're playing $5.50 SNGs my advice would be to play ABC, there's no need for tricky play.
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Grinder
Old 03-02-2008, 05:33 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
I agree taipan that 95% of the time I'm making a standard raise... But you're obviously limp/re-raising AI. AK plays better AI PF in most cases.

But I honestly feel that limping will cause people to try to squeeze with worse hands, and may encourage a shove that is easily callable.
Don't forget that $5.50 SNG opps tend to be loose/passive meaning that they won't necessarily shove AI preflop. What happens if you get three callers and then miss the flop? You've lost a lot of the value of your AK.

When you're playing $5.50 SNGs my advice would be to play ABC, there's no need for tricky play.
This is exactly the reason for the limp. Loose calling stations are going to see the flop with any decent hole cards... and by decent for them I mean J9o or Ax, etc.

I think If I had to do it all over again, I would have raised pre-flop, but I'm still shoving at that flop in that point of the tourney.
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taipan168
Old 03-02-2008, 07:46 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
Don't forget that $5.50 SNG opps tend to be loose/passive meaning that they won't necessarily shove AI preflop. What happens if you get three callers and then miss the flop? You've lost a lot of the value of your AK.

When you're playing $5.50 SNGs my advice would be to play ABC, there's no need for tricky play.
This is exactly the reason for the limp. Loose calling stations are going to see the flop with any decent hole cards... and by decent for them I mean J9o or Ax, etc.
Your logic is backwards. When you have AK, you ideally would like to get HU on the flop because:

a) if you miss the flop and you are up against only one opp, a continuation bet is more likely to be successful than if you're against multiple opps

b) even if you flop an A or K, you have to worry about having let somebody see a relatively cheap flop to beat you with something like a BB special two pair.

For this reason, I would raise it preflop every time. If you had AA and there was a particularly aggressive player still to act you might limp with the intention of limp/re-raising - but at a $5.50 tourney I would probably raise that too.
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Grinder
Old 03-02-2008, 08:09 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Hmm... makes sense.
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DetroitHusling101
Old 03-02-2008, 08:11 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I don't mind limping UTG early on in a SNG w/ AK but with blinds this big i think a raise is pretty standard.
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bjsaust
Old 03-03-2008, 01:13 AM #13 (permalink)  
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My point when I asked about it wasnt that limping AK is by itself bad, but unless you have a reason/plan behind doing it, it probably is.
Just playing to improve.
 
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