Hand review, biggest pot lost.

Hey guys, was jus reviewing hands from my last session and I picked the hand that lost me the most to review, did I play this hand wrong the whole time, or was some of the play ok? I am thinking it was played well right up until I made the last call (Which was stupidity, I kinda figured out I was just makin a losing gamble with incorrect pot odds to make the call on the river) big mistake and won't happen again.

I was on the CO with 9h10h (A hand that seems attractive to me in late position) If anyone disagrees please say lol

I hit my flush draw OTF and villain checks, so of course I cbet roughly 3/4 pot, villain calls. The call was quite confusing I perhaps had him on a flush draw himself, definitely not a 2 as he would have re-raised instead of a calling.

So the turn comes and I hit top pair giving me more equity in the hand. Villain checks and I continue on with another 3/4 bet. Villain calls. At this stage I thought I was ahead in the hand and that he was just waiting for the flush. I didn't even think at the time that he could have had an over pair and should possibly think a little bit deeper into villains range in the future, I had no stats or notes on previous play either.

So the turn comes, villain checks again, and I continue with another 3/4 pot sized bet. Villain goes all in??

I thought I had enough equity in the hand to call with the top pair and the flush draw, so I called? Bad call?

Or was I unlucky to be trapped by the KK?

This was also before Keith told me about 3bet sizing so excuse the smallish 3bet please







SB: $2.40 (120 bb)
BB: $3.15 (157.5 bb)
UTG+1: $1.90 (95 bb)
UTG+2: $1.96 (98 bb)
MP1: $3.78 (189 bb)
MP2: $1.93 (96.5 bb)
MP3: $2.23 (111.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $1.96 (98 bb)
BTN: $3.99 (199.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9 T
4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.39) 7 2 2 (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $0.26, MP3 calls $0.26

Turn: ($0.91) T (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $0.54, MP3 raises to $1.79 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.98 and is all-in

River: ($3.95) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $3.95 pot ($0.14 rake)
Final Board: 7 2 2 T 7
MP3 showed K K and won $3.81 ($1.85 net)
Hero showed 9 T and lost (-$1.96 net)

Your 3-bet size is fine pre, but I think flatting the 3x raise will probably be more profitable in those games. Your flop play is obviously fine, but I'm not sure about the turn bet. Th9h is certainly a decent hand on the turn there, but you have to think about what will result from your betting there.

What is your bet representing?

Spoiler: Show

JJ+ or air, pretty much.

How will he respond to your bet on the turn?

Spoiler: Show

Probably by calling with 76s and better, often shoving with hands greater than JJ. A lot of his range is Ax or a hand like 33-66 which will probably be folding to a substantial bet size. He'll also call with some flush draw, namely the nut flush draw, KhQh KhJh QhJh.

How will he respond to checking the turn?

Spoiler: Show

Probably he will think it is weak and try to bluff you on a lot of rivers with hands like AJ/AQ or missed flush draws. He might also value bet with worse hands such as 99. Basically when he has a worse pair such as 99 88 A7, you're going to win exactly one bet from that hand regardless of whether you bet the turn or not. But when he has a hand like KK or A2, you're going to get stacked when you bet the turn but only lose one bet when you check the turn.

The only thing I have to add is that a pair plus a flush draw is a monster on the flop, but merely a medium strength hand on the turn, especially on a paired board. So beware the allure of overplaying hands like this.

Oh also you definitely have enough equity to call his turn shove, and your turn bet is probably +EV, i just think checking is even better.

3b sizing is fine, but I'd be a lot more inclined to call this than 3b, especially at 2nl where we should be focussing on value and not bluffs.

Flop is standard.

I'm betting this turn at 2nl, it's reasonable that villain has plenty of flush draws and 7x in his range, as well as pairs, and seeing as he flats pre he's gonna have big pairs less often. When he jams turn, well we don't need him to have a great deal that we're ahead of before this call is fine. I'd make the call. Obviously the overpair is painful, we're way behind. But sometimes we're ahead of his flush draws, sometimes we crush his 88/99, and sometimes he may even be airballing, putting us on AK. I'd probably bet the turn a little bigger, making the call to jam even easier. Had I flatted pre, I'd probably raise his flop cbet and take it from there.

Make sure you note that this guy r/c KK oop.

Flatting the 3x raise seems more sensible have to agree, I 3bet to give my hand a little more strength I believe.

Would checking the turn not indicate weakness? I figure whatever way the hand went after that 10 came on the turn, I would have called any raise or all in to see the river mainly because of the equity I believed I had with the draw etc am I wrong in thinking this? I think if I had gathered some information on villain and had some good notes I may have played the hand differently, but with little to no notes I was just guessing really.

Thanks for the advice it's been helpful, also need to ask how do you do that spoiler thing? Thankss

Oh one more thing, am I always going to be losing money in situations like these when villain holds QQ,KK,AA etc? Would a lot of players play this hand down to showdown in these circumstances? What would you have done yourself if you don't mind me asking

Originally Posted by OngBonga

3b sizing is fine, but I'd be a lot more inclined to call this than 3b, especially at 2nl where we should be focussing on value and not bluffs.

Flop is standard.

I'm betting this turn at 2nl, it's reasonable that villain has plenty of flush draws and 7x in his range, as well as pairs, and seeing as he flats pre he's gonna have big pairs less often. When he jams turn, well we don't need him to have a great deal that we're ahead of before this call is fine. I'd make the call. Obviously the overpair is painful, we're way behind. But sometimes we're ahead of his flush draws, sometimes we crush his 88/99, and sometimes he may even be airballing, putting us on AK. I'd probably bet the turn a little bigger, making the call to jam even easier. Had I flatted pre, I'd probably raise his flop cbet and take it from there.

Make sure you note that this guy r/c KK oop.

Thanks mate, nice to know that I wasn't playin wrong by calling the shove. I had a look at the turn bet and it is quite small just over half pot, I was thinking a bet of around 0.70-0.75 would have been better here.

Either way though there was no getting away from it all going in the middle lol

Would checking the turn not indicate weakness?

Why is repping weakness a problem? Let's say he calls the flop bet with AQ and you check the turn... river is a jack... maybe he figures you have AK or 88 and tries to bluff you. You just got an extra street of value off a part of his range, all because he thought your turn check was weak. We only don't want to appear weak when we actually are weak.

No, vs KK specifically if you had checked the turn you would have lost one bet instead of the rest of your stack. It would go check, he leads river, you call and lose, with 50% of your stack intact.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Why is repping weakness a problem? Let's say he calls the flop bet with AQ and you check the turn... river is a jack... maybe he figures you have AK or 88 and tries to bluff you. You just got an extra street of value off a part of his range, all because he thought your turn check was weak. We only don't want to appear weak when we actually are weak.

I get ya now lol for some reason I posted that on the basis that I was bluffin the villain when I wasn't lol

Originally Posted by Renton

No, vs KK specifically if you had checked the turn you would have lost one bet instead of the rest of your stack. It would go check, he leads river, you call and lose, with 50% of your stack intact.

Ah right cool mate minimizing the losses when ya do get beat

Don't 3bet with 9Ts, it is a marginal hand, and your aim is to see a cheap flop and try to connect straights or flushes, so you have to call, it will be more profitable, and also, you want to keep the pot small until you connect something. If you 3bet you will be facing strong hands like the one the villian had. On the flop you get the flush draw, there's no need to bet so much, you can try a blocking bet of 15c or 16c

I've gotten into my head that whatever hands I play with I raise with pre, is this a bad habit to get into or I guess there are certain spots where it is ok to flat, what about limping in sometimes is that bad play? Thanks for the info mate

Yeah there's surely spots where it is better to flat. This hand is an example because you have to put 2bb into a 7bb pot. And thus, T9s is a marginal hand, and your aim is to search for draws, and for that it is better to keep the spr high. By 3betting you are reducing a lot the spr and you will commit to the hand a lot easier.
It is also kind of a tricky hand, especially when you hit top pair with this hand, it is very easy to loose a lot of money in those cases, and with a small pot it is a lot easier to fold in situations that wouldn't be easy if you make the pot big.
Other examples where you can flat call is for example when you have AJ or AQ, or KQ and you have position on the villian. I suggest you to almost always have either the aggresion, position or both. The most common exceptions are when you have connectors on the bb where pot odds are higher.

NEVER limp, just do it when you have small pairs or connectors and you are on SB and there are 1 or more limpers in the hand. Odds are brutally high. You can also limp AA or KK when you have a stack of 8bb or less, but this always applies to tournaments because you will never have 8bb in a cash game.

3 betting T9 is basically turning it into a bluff unless you have a lot of history: not at this level would be my advice (unless you have info he's likely to fold to 3Bets in which case T9s is nice to have a bit of hidden equity from if he does call but you are making the play for the hands he folds -or at least on the strength of them paying for the occasional flop which you hope to connect).

Limping is something you can do in two situations (but I don't recommend either):
- early position monster (KK/AA) you are hoping someone will raise back to your reraise (requires a reasonably active table)
- weak speculative hands you are hoping for a really cheap flop looking for 2pair+ or good draws. The deeper the stacks and the more passive the players (pre-flop at least) the better ...you can do without this type of move but if you do then postflop discipline is essential. The more other people limp first the more viable it gets since you are hoping to hit hard anyway (so others are presumed to be behind if you are continuing even if it's a multi-way pot: watch out for hands that look strong on flops that could easily have been hit harder: e.g. you're at the bottom end of straights or flushes)


P.S. If you're really able to stop yourself making stupid calls you're doing much better than me!

Originally Posted by matiusaa

Yeah there's surely spots where it is better to flat. This hand is an example because you have to put 2bb into a 7bb pot. And thus, T9s is a marginal hand, and your aim is to search for draws, and for that it is better to keep the spr high. By 3betting you are reducing a lot the spr and you will commit to the hand a lot easier.
It is also kind of a tricky hand, especially when you hit top pair with this hand, it is very easy to loose a lot of money in those cases, and with a small pot it is a lot easier to fold in situations that wouldn't be easy if you make the pot big.
Other examples where you can flat call is for example when you have AJ or AQ, or KQ and you have position on the villian. I suggest you to almost always have either the aggresion, position or both. The most common exceptions are when you have connectors on the bb where pot odds are higher.

NEVER limp, just do it when you have small pairs or connectors and you are on SB and there are 1 or more limpers in the hand. Odds are brutally high. You can also limp AA or KK when you have a stack of 8bb or less, but this always applies to tournaments because you will never have 8bb in a cash game.

Thanks mate! Some great info there, noted down a few things, will be having another session tomorrow evening after work and will post up some other hands and stuff, just for micro play, will just keep this thread for all my hands and stuff instead of crowding up the forum with many threads. And any other micro players feel free to post hands or how you are doin in here would be nice to see how other players are grindin them

Originally Posted by Timlagor

3 betting T9 is basically turning it into a bluff unless you have a lot of history: not at this level would be my advice (unless you have info he's likely to fold to 3Bets in which case T9s is nice to have a bit of hidden equity from if he does call but you are making the play for the hands he folds -or at least on the strength of them paying for the occasional flop which you hope to connect).

Limping is something you can do in two situations (but I don't recommend either):
- early position monster (KK/AA) you are hoping someone will raise back to your reraise (requires a reasonably active table)
- weak speculative hands you are hoping for a really cheap flop looking for 2pair+ or good draws. The deeper the stacks and the more passive the players (pre-flop at least) the better ...you can do without this type of move but if you do then postflop discipline is essential. The more other people limp first the more viable it gets since you are hoping to hit hard anyway (so others are presumed to be behind if you are continuing even if it's a multi-way pot: watch out for hands that look strong on flops that could easily have been hit harder: e.g. you're at the bottom end of straights or flushes)


P.S. If you're really able to stop yourself making stupid calls you're doing much better than me!

Thanks mate! I reckon throughout my whole life of playing poker I will make a stupid call here or there haha thanks for the reply dude

{{Moved to Small Stakes NL}}

We normally post HHs in the SSNL forum and general questions in the BC.

Thanks.

without stats that villain folds to 3bets a lot or plays fit or fold postflop in 3bet pots then flatting is better. as played cbet flop and check back turn. i use to think i was getting value on these turns but as i have come to find, im mostly owning myself when i get called here OTT. plus with stack sizes where they are im not too thrilled about GII here. did you tank call or snap call?