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Ash256
Old 02-24-2007, 09:14 PM     Post subject: Hand Reading Thought Process #1 (permalink)  
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 What is your thought process for reading your opponents hands? Please post HHs and give your thought process, comment on what's important, etc. I'd like to see posts which use HUD stats and some that don't, some with reads, some from total unknowns, etc.

I hope that this thread may get stickified or inspire someone to write a sticky, as I feel that reading your opponent's hand is something that hasn't been covered as much as other topics here on FTR, and yet is possibly the most important aspect of playing good poker.
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bigspenda73
Old 02-24-2007, 09:19 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I am at work but this a great idea.
I'll post some hands later.
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Miffed22001
Old 02-24-2007, 10:35 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 So much is written about reading opponents hands etc but the fatc of the matter for me is that in small stakes games many players are either campers and play so mechanically its easy to put them on a monster hand or else they are fish who just need to be value bet to death.
Below 200nl reads arent of any real importance because games are so beatable, and even then 200nl may not be a big enough game for it to matter.
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Cocco_Bill
Old 02-24-2007, 11:10 PM #4 (permalink)  
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** Game ID 1223233354 starting - 2007-02-23 20:57:32
** Iolana [Hold 'em] (2.50|5.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- namco sitting in seat 1 with $695.65
- ertys14 sitting in seat 2 with $945.09 [Dealer]
- Cocco_Bill sitting in seat 3 with $472.50
- abj12 sitting in seat 4 with $120.43
- gta1978 sitting in seat 5 with $432.40
- Shagga sitting in seat 6 with $788.05

Cocco_Bill posted the small blind - $2.50
abj12 posted the big blind - $5.00
** Dealing card to Cocco_Bill ,
gta1978 folded
Shagga folded
namco raised - $20.00
ertys14 folded
Cocco_Bill called - $20.00 I call with my lucky sevens
abj12 folded

** Dealing the flop: :Qc:, :Qd:,
Cocco_Bill checked
namco bet - $33.00
Cocco_Bill raised - $66.00 I minraise, he has AK for sure
namco raised - $133.00
Cocco_Bill went all-in - $389.00 wtf, no way he has a better hand than me! you talk the talk, but do you walk the walk!
namco folded lol yeah muck those cards you sissy
Cocco_Bill shows: 7 of Clubs, 7 of Spades
Cocco_Bill wins $630.00 from the main pot

End of game 1223233354
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mcatdog
Old 02-24-2007, 11:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Yeti theorem.
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Galapogos
Old 02-25-2007, 03:15 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Yeti theorem.
Haha I was excited to post this since I just learned the term yesterday. Then I scrolled even further to see I was beat


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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Zee Devee
Old 02-25-2007, 04:16 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Yeti theorem.
what is this?
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thenonsequitur
Old 02-25-2007, 11:34 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Yeti Theorem says that on a paired flop, a 3-bet is usually a bluff.
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Miffed22001
Old 02-25-2007, 11:57 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 the yeti theorem is alot of talk about nothing

just like the yeti, and 3 bets
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OarChambo
Old 02-25-2007, 05:25 PM #10 (permalink)  

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I don't like the min reraise bet [if you're raising a pot 3x or more, no exceptions], but yea your opponent pretty much telegraphed what he was holding. The only other hands I could possibly think of that beat yours were pp's 88-JJ, but none of those were as likely as AK.
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Warpe
Old 02-25-2007, 05:35 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Below 200nl reads arent of any real importance because games are so beatable, and even then 200nl may not be a big enough game for it to matter.
QFBS

That's ludicrous.



 
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Warpe
Old 02-25-2007, 05:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Warpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the rough
 Villain is a solid SLAGG who runs 26/21/3.28 over 300+ hands with an 8.00 river aggression frequency:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($90.82)
Button ($228.05)
SB ($56.15)
BB ($222.06)
Hero ($151.33)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, T. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, Button calls $3, SB (poster) calls $2.50, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($12) T, 5, 9 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $8, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $8.

Turn: ($28) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($28) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

Final Pot: $72

Results in white below:
BB has Kh Qd (one pair, nines).
Hero has Ah Td (two pair, tens and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins $72.



 
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Miffed22001
Old 02-25-2007, 06:18 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Below 200nl reads arent of any real importance because games are so beatable, and even then 200nl may not be a big enough game for it to matter.
QFBS

That's ludicrous.
how many hands from a 15k sample would you play at 50nl that are not all 'standard' Not many, if any.
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flyingPenguin
Old 02-25-2007, 10:02 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Below 200nl reads arent of any real importance because games are so beatable, and even then 200nl may not be a big enough game for it to matter.
QFBS

That's ludicrous.
how many hands from a 15k sample would you play at 50nl that are not all 'standard' Not many, if any.
I'm with Warpe. Even as low as $25NL I'll play different styles on different days and at different sites. This means I'm playing with reads. Even if it's as simple as "these players are really weak/tight - I'm raising/reraising heaps" or "these players are 3 betting very lightly - I'm going to raise less crap" that's playing with reads as far as I'm concerned.

More specific reads may not be necessary to make you a winning player, but they will have a big effect on your winrate. Sure reads may be easier because the players are so often crap so are easy to pigeonhole, but it's still a read.
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XTR1000
Old 02-26-2007, 06:49 AM #15 (permalink)  
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villian was 52/9/1.5 and the only one at this table who was somewhat knowing, what he´s doing. i was running good and pushed him off a few pots before

EverestPoker Game #1161312636: Table Muscat-61 - $0.15/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:14:05 - 2007/02/24
Seat 1: NEONXX ($14.24)
Seat 2: bl4ck_4ces ($30.87)
Seat 3: XTR1000 ($40.07)
Seat 4: buzzmarco ($29.66)
Seat 5: manni33 ($10.00)
Seat 6: GG33 ($15.05)
bl4ck_4ces posts the small blind of $0.15
XTR1000 posts the big blind of $0.25
manni33 posts $0.25
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XTR1000[:Ah: ]
buzzmarco calls $0.25
manni33 checks
GG33 folds
NEONXX calls $0.25
bl4ck_4ces calls $0.10
XTR1000 checks i´m gonna check this, i don´t know yet, that i must lift my pfr
*** FLOP *** [ :Th: ]
bl4ck_4ces checks
XTR1000 bets $1.00 i bet my draw here, as everytime
buzzmarco folds
manni33 folds
NEONXX folds
bl4ck_4ces calls $1.00 okay, we can rule out a T in his hand, he always potted flops with TP. FD, two overs, or small-mid pp
*** TURN *** [ :Th: ] []
bl4ck_4ces checks
XTR1000 bets $2.50 keep on betting your FD, a heart will fall
bl4ck_4ces raises to $5.00 uh oh, he finally stands up. does his set fear my FD?
XTR1000 calls $2.50
*** RIVER *** [ :Th: ] []
bl4ck_4ces bets $13.25 now that bet really makes no sense at all. a) he bet the nuts 2/3 to 3/4 before and took time before he bet, this bet doesn´t want to be called and b) immediately potting at these tables are air 8 out of 10 times. i´m gonna kick his ass or be the spewing donkey.
XTR1000 raises to $30
bl4ck_4ces folds
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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MuddyWicket
Old 03-02-2007, 06:37 AM #16 (permalink)  
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This thread I would love to see worked on with more examples.
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Tom42
Old 03-02-2007, 07:18 AM #17 (permalink)  
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I'm not all that good reading hands, but here is a simple hand where I could narrow down his range to a few hands :

Villain was your typical TAG, a bit on the tight side and predictable. 14.5/10/4.5 over 500 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($271.10)
UTG ($102)
MP ($86.90)
CO ($100)
Button ($90.50)
SB ($169.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 9. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) A, 9, K (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, UTG raises to $13, CO folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $30, UTG calls $88 (All-In)

**Ok, villains all-in made me think. He wouldn't do this with air or a pair in an unraised pot being the TAG he is. He must have something good. AA, KK, AK and even 99 are out of the picture cause he'd definately raise those UTG. So hands that have me beat are very unlikely.

What could he have though? I doubt he'd limp K9 or even A9 UTG. I don't think he'd be this aggro with only a flush draw. Only possibility left is some kind of combo draw, QTs, JTs, Q9s or T9s. **

,Hero calls $71.

Turn: ($206) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($206) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $206

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad 9s (two pair, aces and nines).
UTG has Jc Tc (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins $206.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-02-2007, 02:44 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 Missed draw reading 101.

lol im the man. The turn is actually setting up a push on most rivers.. but he insta calls the turn.
PokerStars Game #8568955202: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/02/22 - 15:03:47 (ET)
Table 'Halleria' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: lonnmar ($179.30 in chips)
Seat 4: I pRaXiS I ($154.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Jakep8nt ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 6: redgrape ($110.40 in chips)
redgrape: posts small blind $0.50
lonnmar: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Ah Js]
I pRaXiS I: folds
Jakep8nt: folds
kipkap joins the table at seat #2
redgrape: raises $3 to $4
lonnmar: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [3c Td 3d]
redgrape: bets $7
lonnmar: calls $7
*** TURN *** [3c Td 3d] [4s]
redgrape: checks
lonnmar: bets $14
perrydiddle joins the table at seat #3
redgrape: raises $14 to $28 (seems kinda donkey, but im setting up a river bluff with my reads most of the time.)
lonnmar: calls $14
*** RIVER *** [3c Td 3d 4s] [5c]
kipkap said, "nic4e"
redgrape: checks
lonnmar: bets $40
kipkap said, "allinn"
redgrape said, "god this looks like a missed flush" WHAT EVER BETS HERE THAT HAS PLAYED THIS WAY SO FAR? (of course this is with my reads)
redgrape: calls $40
*** SHOW DOWN ***
lonnmar: shows [Qd Jd] (a pair of Threes)
redgrape: shows [Ah Js] (a pair of Threes - Ace kicker)
redgrape collected $156 from pot
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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benny999
Old 03-03-2007, 08:53 AM #19 (permalink)  
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just a small pot, but they add up.

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1./$2.
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $229.70
Hero: $372.60
SB: $119
BB: $331.55

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with 3 3
UTG folds, Hero raises to $7, SB folds, BB calls.
--bb is a bad tag ,25/15/2 ish stats, just loose oop and thinks ppl bluff too much.
he lost a big pot recently and seemed tilty.

Flop: 2 7 4 ($15, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
--he checked real fast so I figured he was weak, but I'll see the turn and maybe let the tilter stab at it.
side note - checking more flops vs aggro opps is helping my hand reading and other tactics quite a bit, even if it might be easier to just cbet more often.

Turn: 2 ($15, 2 players)
BB bets $7, Hero calls.
--total blank. looks like a "probe" bet. still a good chance he has air, but a better pair is possible.

River: 9 ($29, 2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero calls.
another blank. hmm...why would he bet so big when this overcard hits, especially after i've acted weak? this guy is not tricky enough to consider a thin value bet. ez call!


Results:
Final pot: $69
BB shows 6d 8c
Hero shows 3s 3d
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Warpe
Old 03-03-2007, 09:17 PM #20 (permalink)  
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 Observed hands:

1.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($39.57)
SB ($116.50)
BB ($76.95)
Villain is UTG ($268.08)
MP ($60.05)

Preflop: SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP raises to $5, 3 folds, Villain calls $4.

Flop: ($11.50) 5, 6, 4 (2 players)
UTG checks, MP bets $9, Villain calls $9.

Turn: ($29.50) 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, MP bets $10, Villain calls $10.

River: ($49.50) A (2 players)
Villain bets $70, MP calls $60.05 (All-In).

Final Pot: $179.55

Results in white below:
Villain has 4d Kd (two pair, sixes and fours).
MP has 7h 7s (two pair, sevens and sixes).
Outcome: MP wins $169.60. Villain wins $9.95.

2.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($30)
UTG ($82.14)
MP ($116)
CO ($75.45)
Villain is Button ($205.03)
SB ($78.53)

Preflop: SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG raises to $2, 2 folds, Villain calls $2, SB (poster) calls $1.50, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($8) 7, 9, A (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Villain bets $5, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $5.

Turn: ($18) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $7, Villain calls $7.

River: ($32) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $10, Villain calls $205.03 (All-In), UTG calls $82.14 (All-In).

Final Pot: $329.17

Results in white below:
UTG has Ad Tc (one pair, aces).
Villain has Jc Ts (high card, ace).
Outcome: UTG wins $216.28. Villain wins $112.89.

3.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($28)
BB ($165.28)
UTGA ($116)
MP ($75.45)
Villain is CO ($122.89)
Button ($76.53)

Preflop: SB posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, Villain calls $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes $27.50 (All-In), 1 fold, Villain calls $27, Button folds.

Flop: ($58) 5, 3, 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($58) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($58) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $58

Results in white below:
SB has Jd Js (two pair, jacks and threes).
Villain has 8d Qd (one pair, threes).
Outcome: SB wins $56. Villain wins $2.


4. My turn:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($55.10)
Hero ($116.40)
SB ($74.45)
Villain is BB ($94.89)
UTG ($81.03)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, T. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, Villain calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) 2, A, K (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $7, Villain calls $7.

Turn: ($22.50) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $16, Villain raises to $32, Hero calls $16.

River: ($86.50) T (2 players)
Villain calls $93.89 (All-In), Hero calls $51.89.

Final Pot: $232.28

Results in white below:
Villain has Jc Ks (two pair, kings and jacks).
Hero has Ad Td (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins $232.28.



 
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