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AllinLife

07-03-2004, 03:41 AM Post subject: grinding?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 530

have been playing poker for about 2~3 months, only read how to play like pros (i know it's not the best book)..been playing at play money table though it doesn't mean anything.

help me out here... I am about to put in 50$ (free money I earned selling items on a game).
what would be the best way for me to build my bankroll..?

I heard playing super tight at loose table plainyg solid poker will ensure maximum chance for me to do so... (is that aka grinding?)

correct me if I'm wrong or help out with my definition of solid poker

1) playing top 10 hands
2) no slow plays, raising when your card hits
3) folding on draws (given correct pot odd or no?)

thanks in advance..

"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
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FyrFytr998

07-03-2004, 03:52 AM

#2 (permalink)

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If I'm not mistaken. "Grinders" are people who play cash poker as a sole means of income.

The definition of solid poker to me is knowing how the table is playing and adjusting your game accordingly. If you're on a tight table you can loosen up a bit because the odds of you making a huge pot are slim and none. And when there is action you are usually beat. So you take stabs when you can, and steal as much as you can until you're called or reraised. Then you fold and start all over again.

If you're on a wild table then you pull back a bit and wait for good hands. And play according to the tenets that are taught in FTR's strategy section. (I'm such a shameless whore

) Play your position and strengths. It's really a matter of getting as much playing experience as you can. I know playing online has made me a much better live player.

Big Lick

mike4066

07-03-2004, 04:11 AM

#3 (permalink)

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if your reading hellmouths book, take it with a grain of salt.

i read it and i can't remember a single thing in the book i liked.

just my $.02

michael1123

07-03-2004, 05:25 AM

#4 (permalink)

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You can't expect to make much money by only depositing $50, especially since this is your first time playing for real money. And it doesn't sound like you're looking to deposit more soon, so you want to be careful not to lose it too quickly.

So I'd suggest playing in either really cheap Sit and Gos (some sites have them as low as $.75+.$25 or $1+$.20, like the Prima network - i.e. Royal Vegas, 7 Sultans, etc.) or at cheap tables. The good thing about Sit and Gos is that you're capping your losses. You can only lose your buy-in fee. And if you play at tables, you should probably start out with playing limit holdem, and maybe even in tournies. Its a good way to learn the basics of the game, before moving onto NL, which involves a lot more strategy, and there's less big swings in limit games.

I started out playing limit holdem for the first month or two that I was playing for real money (mainly because the first site I used, Pacific, only offered limit holdem), and I think it helped make NL less overwhelming at first.

johnnyawe

07-03-2004, 08:07 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,064

You are exactly where I was about 6 months ago.

I put in $50 at party poker and intended to play the 0.50/1.00 limit tables. I had not read any books or anything. I had been playing play money for about a month, but that was it. I printed out a "reccommended starting hands chart" from a website and off I went. I figured $50 was about the same I would spend on a normal computer game, and if I lost it all, no big deal. I played those low limit tables for a couple weeks and somehow won maybe $10. Then I stumbled on this site and read the no-limit vs. limit essay, and I started playing at the no limit $25 tables. (This is insane if you only have a $60 bankroll, but I did not know that at the time).

Within a couple weeks, I lost my original $50, but I decided to put in 100 more dollars. About a month after that, I had to put in $100 more and I was starting to wonder if I had a gambling problem! That was about the time that I started checking out the forums and all the articles on this site and started really learning how to play. Since then, I haven't looked back, and I'm definitely in the plus column.

My advice: play the absolute LOWEST stakes game you can find. If you go for no limit, I think one of the sites has a $2 buy-in game with 1cent/2cent blinds. If you go for a limit game, make sure the stakes are much lower than .50/1.00. Stay away from the 6 person tables, as they are overly aggressive and a beginner can get eaten alive. Try to play at 10-person tables. The super low buy-in sit and go tournaments that michael1123 mentioned would be ok too.

Lots of discussion on these forums about limit vs. no limit vs. tournaments. I think all three are fine for learning the game. The sit and gos may actually be the best because you get to play a lot of hands for the money you put in. But I went the cash game route and that has worked fine for me.

Once you get your feet wet in those types of games, you'll be able to move up to the 25 NL tables at Party and Empire, if you want to.

Just remember, $50 is not a lot of money to play poker on and you may very well lose all of it, even if you play well. Poker is about up and down swings and you have to have the bankroll to weather the downswings. It's a good plan to try to build up from $50, but don't feel like a failure if you lose all of it while trying to learn the game.

Good luck..

doubleup

07-03-2004, 11:26 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Excellent reply Natural. I started out with $50 and have actually played with that $50 for nearly 3 months now. Like Natural said, the key is playing cheap games. I started out on Party Poker playing their low limit ring games, which I recommend you do. I also recommend you play as many SnG's as possible. With $50 you can play 9 $5 SnG's on UltimateBet in which you'll gain experience. UltimateBet is a good place to learn because the players are a little better than Party Poker and the other sites. I can't stand Party Poker, I hate that site with a passion. My strongest tip to you is to stay AWAY from Party Poker. Bah, I hate that site.

DrNoChance

07-03-2004, 11:47 AM

#7 (permalink)

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I've made the most money at Party Poker (as compared to Paradise), but playing with players that are THAT bad does take adjustments. Forget about bluffing, you win on Party Poker by value betting people like there's no tomorrow. And yes, you'll take some bad beats from people playing hands that they shouldn't be in there with in the first place. There's days I hate Party Poker too

Humphrind

07-03-2004, 02:37 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNoChance

Paradise has something that I think is indespensable to someone with a $50 bankroll. $10 max NL Holdem tables. $50 is a good amount if you stick to the $10 rooms. Not too long ago, I was making a profit in the $10 rooms and taking that and losing it in the $25 rooms. Then I'd go back to the $10 rooms and repeat the cycle. Eventually I made profit in the $25 rooms, and stayed there for a while. I still like to go back to the $10 rooms, but it's just to play for fun, while I'm browsing FTR or something.

The $10 rooms are tighter than the $2 NL tables. (however, I was surprised the $2 NL was a little tighter than the $.05 / $.10 limit tables.) But all these tables are the home for maniacs at Paradise.

Good luck with your deposit.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

AllinLife

07-04-2004, 03:23 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 530

love you guys

"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen

FyrFytr998

07-05-2004, 03:18 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Milford,Ct.

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definitions. "Grinder"
1: A tight player that plays conservatively, hoping to slowly grind out a small earning over the long haul.

Found this definition on the net. Hope it helps. I wasn't that far off with my original answer

Big Lick

AllinLife

07-05-2004, 04:54 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 530

hey guys I found 2$ NL tables on paradise poker, I think it's perfect for me. what's your opinion?

"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen

michael1123

07-05-2004, 06:45 AM

#12 (permalink)

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$2 blinds?! You're going to get eaten alive if that's the case. I won over a grand yesterday, and I just moved up to the $.50 / $1 blind NL tables.

You're supposed to have 400x the big blind to be abe to comfortably play at a level and withstand the swings. Given that you're new to money play as well, you definitely want to be around that range. So while I could move up to the $1/$2 level, you should be playing at about $.05 / $.10, which they do have on some, if not most sites (I know Prima has them).

Toasty

07-05-2004, 07:43 AM

#13 (permalink)

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I think he means $2 buy in, which means the blinds will be around 0.10/0.20

This will be an excellent way to learn TTs strat and get some experiance in general before moving to the PP 25NL tables.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

michael1123

07-05-2004, 07:50 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Oh, they have $2 buyin tables? That'd be nice for sure.

Humphrind

07-06-2004, 01:14 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty

I think he means $2 buy in, which means the blinds will be around 0.10/0.20

This will be an excellent way to learn TTs strat and get some experiance in general before moving to the PP 25NL tables.

Even smaller. The blinds are $.01 / $.02

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Toasty

07-06-2004, 07:42 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

yeah, my dodgy math there, I though 25c for a $25 table and went on to think 20c for a $2, 2c would have been more like it.

That's one cheap poker education

wish I had done that.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

gregor

02-09-2005, 02:13 PM

#17 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 95

you'll never win a dime in poker sitting back, waiting for your hands to hit...

elipsesjeff

02-09-2005, 02:18 PM

#18 (permalink)

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elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

See date:

July!!!!

Geez, and to think I almost read this.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

dalecooper

02-09-2005, 02:33 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

you'll never win a dime in poker sitting back, waiting for your hands to hit...

Au contraire - if you play like a rock while multi-tabling full ring games, and then play standard Sklansky poker whenever you get a premium hand, you'll make money. Slowly but surely. The more tables you play and the higher the blinds, the more you stand to make. You won't clear as much as a really good player who can navigate some trickier hands and be more creative and aggressive, but you can definitely make money this way. You can't make money this way playing 6 max or with all solid players, but multi-tabling full rings full of fish, this is an easy winner. The problem is, it's boring.

JeffreyGB

02-09-2005, 03:26 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyawe

My advice: play the absolute LOWEST stakes game you can find. If you go for no limit, I think one of the sites has a $2 buy-in game with 1cent/2cent blinds.

UltimateBet offers this. Not sure if they are the only ones or not.

- Jeffrey

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

JeffreyGB

02-09-2005, 03:28 PM

#21 (permalink)

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LOL. Just read the dates. I'm the idiot that you escaped being, e-Jeff.

- Jeffrey

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

EasyT

02-09-2005, 06:13 PM

#22 (permalink)

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I started at Paradise, and absolutely recommend it for beginning. Humphrind is right on this.

They have .01/.02, $2-NL tables to learn on. Then you can move to .05/.10, $10-NL tables as a half-way step before the $25NL table. Also, the blinds at the $25 table are HALF of what they are at Empire, so the pots are smaller and your bankroll won't fluctuate so much.

I'm not sure I recommend the $5 and $10 Tournaments for someone with a $50 bankroll. That's where I started, and the Tourneys killed my bankroll quickly. It's good experience for not much money, but requires a whole new set of skills to get ITM (short handed play, accurate reads, some bluffing, keeping track of the blinds, etc). So develop these skills at ring tables playing conservatively until you're comfortable, or have increased your bankroll.

For me, the key to moving my bankroll higher was developing the knowlede/ability to FOLD well. This is a real skill that will save your bankroll. If you're not the one raising, you gotta ask yourself why, and think about getting out of the hand. Not everyone is bluffing (even at the $2-NL tables)!

If another site has $.50 or $1 tourneys, thet'd be a great tool too.

And keep reading FTR. I'm with Johnnyawe on this one!

EasyT

02-09-2005, 06:50 PM

#23 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

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I forgot the BEST thing about Paradise Poker for beginners:

THE BIG BUCK TOURNAMENT

$1 buy in. This is not a sit-n-go. You register up to a few hours in advance. It's every day at 4 PM EST (maybe also at 5 AM or something I'll never do). With work I can only play this on Saturdays, which is probably the busiest day. Usually 1,200-1,600 people (read: $1,200+ prize money). Top place is ususally around $300 (not bad for a buck), and you get your money back out of it if you're in the top 100-150. Great multi-table experience with ONLY an upside where your bankroll is concerned!

The only thing I don't like about Paradise is that it runs slowly, and hogs a lot of my computer's multi-tasking ability. They have more connection troubles than other sites, IMO. But maybe it's just my crappy computer.

wwonka

02-12-2005, 07:57 PM Post subject: Bodog

#24 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 120

Bodog isn't bad Not the biggest site but they also have Micro limit games.
they also are holding $1 sats to the wsop. plus they offer a sign up bonus that hits your account immedialety

peace
wwonka

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