GrinderSchool.com Poker Training Site

Not really sure why some microstakers don't sign up. Really good site with very respectable coaches and I'm not just sucking up to them either.

I'm glad you guys decided to drop the DRM of the videos. Even though I was able to get around that issue, it is still a plus in my book and should increase your membership.

I was interested in your "new" coaching offers, but after reading the rates for Grinderschool coaching, "$25nl and below or $10 buyin tournaments, rates are $50 per hour. For higher stakes, rates are $100 per hour". I'm very hesitant to participate. It may be worth it but that's a considerable amount to pay for 1 hour, it seems for a 10NL or lower player. Can you explain a little more about the format of coaching? How do the sessions occur? What does "Live Coaching" mean, anyway?

Thanks for the info and the offers. The standard Grinderschool subscription price to view videos seems very fair.

link?

The place looks better
Got me Hooked
just signed up for 1 month :P

Originally Posted by flomo

link?

www.grinderschool.com

Originally Posted by PlayToWin

I was interested in your "new" coaching offers, but after reading the rates for Grinderschool coaching, "$25nl and below or $10 buyin tournaments, rates are $50 per hour. For higher stakes, rates are $100 per hour". I'm very hesitant to participate. It may be worth it but that's a considerable amount to pay for 1 hour, it seems for a 10NL or lower player. Can you explain a little more about the format of coaching? How do the sessions occur? What does "Live Coaching" mean, anyway?

Well, each coach is likely to have a slightly different approach, so I can only really speak for myself on this. Live Coaching refers to watching you play and giving immediate feedback on every hand (or having you watch me play while I answer questions). I specifically note that the feedback comes after you play because that's very relevant - you get much less benefit from me telling you what plays to make than you do from me correcting your mistakes and adding on to the knowledge you already have.

In many ways, I think that a mix between hand history review and the live coaching described above provides the best results. For instance, in preparation for a two-hour session I am doing next week, I had a student submit a block of hands from his pt database. I'm looking over these hands before we start things so that I can have specific areas to focus on for improvement.

So far, every student I have coached has been satisfied to the point that they scheduled at least one additional session.

As far as the price, if you pick up a single concept from the session, it will definitely make the money back for you. I think if you look around, you'll find that our rates for coaching are actually a lot more reasonable than what many experienced players charge (I've known some that made $300/hr or more).

I'd sign up if I couldn't see all the stoxpoker videos for free

Grinderschool picked my game outta the dirt a year ago when I was playing 10nl FR. Now I play 100nl FR, 6m and 50nl HU. A big part of that can be attributed to the things I learned from their coaches.

I would happily recommend them to any aspiring micro stakes up-and-comer.

Originally Posted by PlayToWin

I was interested in your "new" coaching offers, but after reading the rates for Grinderschool coaching, "$25nl and below or $10 buyin tournaments, rates are $50 per hour. For higher stakes, rates are $100 per hour". I'm very hesitant to participate. It may be worth it but that's a considerable amount to pay for 1 hour, it seems for a 10NL or lower player. Can you explain a little more about the format of coaching? How do the sessions occur? What does "Live Coaching" mean, anyway?

I believe that its an investment more than expense. I'd be able to charge you much more (and feel comfortable doing so) given how much profit you'll win with the extra knowledge.

At 100 NL this is especially so because with a lot of grinding, a 1 buy in investment can turn into earnings 10x that much. I had a coach when I was first playing full ring, and I still hire a coach from time to time to help find things that I might be missing. We understand that at microstakes such as 10 NL and 25 NL the $50 coaching is a bit expensive. However this month I'm running a buy one hour get one hour free for Grinderschool members only. So, in a sense, its $25/hour for the same coaching its just that I require you to buy two hours of it (it doesn't have to be back-to-back). This promotion lasts until the end of November.

You just have to make sure that during that hour/2 hours, you're able to get all the information out of that coach that you can. We can only go so far and we won't know what coaching 'needs' that you have and I can only help the things brought up by you. Granted, during live coaching I'm pretty just balls-out critiquing every move you make.

But don't think that Grinderschool isn't a great deal even if you don't want coaching. For the price of 1 month of nearly any other poker subscription site you can get 3 months of Grinderschool, which includes a private forum.

GrinderSchool is worth it.

Originally Posted by Robb

GrinderSchool is worth it.

Elaborate?

Originally Posted by OhBollocks

Originally Posted by Robb

GrinderSchool is worth it.

Elaborate?

GrinderSchool is really worth it.

gimme a 1 day trial and ill give a full site review! think of all the words I could say...

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

gimme a 1 day trial and ill give a full site review! think of all the words I could say...

You know, if you're serious PM me or Jeffrey we can do it.

I LOLed prettty hard @ Robb....

Does the coaching happen over AIM or something like that? How dat work?

Originally Posted by Illfavor

Does the coaching happen over AIM or something like that? How dat work?

There are a few different ways that it can happen. Instant messaging isn't one of the better options because it's a lot slower communication than other options.

Most commonly, we use Ventrilo to do live voice chat, often combined with Teamviewer, so the coach and student see the same screen. I've also done sessions by phone, and once in person (student and I were both in Vegas at the same time).

We also offer sessions based on reviewing tournaments or hand histories, which can sometimes be more helpful than live review - it gives plenty of time to talk about details of important issues while minimizing downtime. That is what most of the sessions I have done with cobere32 have been.

Skype is also good with teamveiwer for a more personal or private lesson.

The site really does look great, you guys. Nice work!

And I can tell the other readers here that the videos the GS gang has kindly done for us are among the best videos that we have, and I'm sure the FTR viewers will agree.

Hey could someone from GS tell me roughly how many videos the entry level 10$ microstake subscription gets you access to. Thanks.

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

Hey could someone from GS tell me roughly how many videos the entry level 10$ microstake subscription gets you access to. Thanks.

I can go one better, and give you a list of them: http://www.grinderschool.com/grinder...icro&sort=#sub

You can click the tag cloud or the sorting links (on the right just below the cloud) to filter that to find specific types of videos.

Thanks for the quick reply, that's great I'll be signing up later today/tomorrow via ps transfer.

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

Originally Posted by LuckySlevin

Hey could someone from GS tell me roughly how many videos the entry level 10$ microstake subscription gets you access to. Thanks.

I can go one better, and give you a list of them: http://www.grinderschool.com/grinder...icro&sort=#sub

You can click the tag cloud or the sorting links (on the right just below the cloud) to filter that to find specific types of videos.

I will elaborate a bit more now that I have some time. I joined GrinderSchool for 3 months early this year. Every FREAKIN' video is awesome. You wanna see them tackle laggy? Watch a 2nl or 5nl vid even if you're grinding 10nl. You wanna prep for the next level? Watch a dozen vids one level up from where you're at.

Cool thing is every video has a discussion link, so if something didn't make sense, you just post about that hand or action. The person who made the vid explains the thinking behind it. Theory, odds, ranges, reads, whatever.

I have seen over the last year in the forums some noobies ranting about bad beats, bad opponents, feeeesh schooling in ways that contrive to tilt them/stack them/drive them crazy, how the micros are too laggy, have too many stations, how the micros have changed since UIEGA, how players like Spoon, zilla, jyms, spenda, renton, ISF who-the-hell-ever couldn't pwn the micros now or couldn't pwn the micros at whatever donkass site is currently driving someone nuts.

Well...watch them. Watch guys who are mods here and have been successful at poker for several years go right back down to the micros and spank them.

The site looks great, nice job guys.

Hey Rilla, did you get that review written? Where do you plan on posting it? I'd love to see a copy of it.

cant see any LHE!

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

However this month I'm running a buy one hour get one hour free for Grinderschool members only. So, in a sense, its $25/hour for the same coaching its just that I require you to buy two hours of it (it doesn't have to be back-to-back).

i'm almost interested in this - 100nl/200nl full ring. Prep for mid-stakes, standard leak spotting and views on playing the player, situational variety etc. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Hey Rilla, did you get that review written? Where do you plan on posting it? I'd love to see a copy of it.

today tyvm

Originally Posted by daven

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

However this month I'm running a buy one hour get one hour free for Grinderschool members only. So, in a sense, its $25/hour for the same coaching its just that I require you to buy two hours of it (it doesn't have to be back-to-back).

i'm almost interested in this - 100nl/200nl full ring. Prep for mid-stakes, standard leak spotting and views on playing the player, situational variety etc. Thoughts?

Well, I don't feel comfortable coaching 200 NL FR but if you want to do 100 NL that's fine. My rates at 100 NL though are double those of the micro stakes so we're looking at $50/hour this month.

You are running out of time though for this promotion as at the end of the month the rates are going back to their normal amounts.

Originally Posted by asdpikas

cant see any LHE!

There are a 'few' Limit Videos. I've created 2 and I think Spenda has done 2 but the majority of our members are Micro-NoLimit/Tournament grinders.

I will probably continue to do some Limit Hold'em videos but not very many in the near future.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Originally Posted by asdpikas

cant see any LHE!

There are a 'few' Limit Videos. I've created 2 and I think Spenda has done 2 but the majority of our members are Micro-NoLimit/Tournament grinders.

I will probably continue to do some Limit Hold'em videos but not very many in the near future.

yeah, i was wondering in case u wanted someone to do some low-mid limit LHE vids, but i guess if theres no demand...

Originally Posted by asdpikas

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Originally Posted by asdpikas

cant see any LHE!

There are a 'few' Limit Videos. I've created 2 and I think Spenda has done 2 but the majority of our members are Micro-NoLimit/Tournament grinders.

I will probably continue to do some Limit Hold'em videos but not very many in the near future.

yeah, i was wondering in case u wanted someone to do some low-mid limit LHE vids, but i guess if theres no demand...

Let me speak with JGB about this.

Grinderschool, a review. In todays review, I'll regale you with the anecdote of my trip and finally hit you with some solid review bullets!

So I got a one day pass to grinder school because I know people and went about surfing around their redesigned site. Though I hadn't seen the site prior to the redesign, it took me about 30 seconds to find the videos and start watching f-one-l (always prounced it a fuh-june-al) in one of his videos. The opening music reminds me of Sonic the Hedgehog, so the site already banks awesomeness points. On to the content!

I would be lying if I said that I combed through these videos looking for super interesting spots and high level thought, but what I did realize pretty easily is how valueable a tool this would be for about 95% of posters in the Beginner's Circle (75% of posters in Full Ring and Short handed forums). Between spenda, F-one, coderedrulez and JGB (didn't watch anyone else, jyms!) all of these coaches help solidify an excellent approach to playing the micros. I think that there is high value in seeing how these guys play the boring hands at the stakes so many micro nits think are unbeatable! I really believe that if everyone in BC subscribed to GS, there we be a 3000% decrease in face-palming and a huge increase in interesting discussion!

However, the downside to this is that I don't believe GS is a long-term tool. If you still need GS videos after 3 months, I figure either you have failed to absorb the knowledge or they have failed to smack it into yo' skull! One thing they desperately need is BETTER articles! I was largely unimpressed by all of them but I figure they can sure up that section later.

Suggestions for GS: Articles and videos which focus on emotional control, how to be a student of poker and how to understand how to analyize hand histories for your play reviews (like a "student of the game" series)! I think these would be incredibly invaluable to your entire target audience.

Overall, if you're thinking GS might help you, then you should check it out!

Rating: 1142781/1143973

*Great for most of BC
*Very helpful tool for people who don't quite "get it"
*A monkey-see monkey-do, monkey-hear monkey-think approach to getting a lot of BC posters up to speed.
*Could use improvement in articles and some content.
*If it can help Slevin, it can help *you*

Excellent review Rilla. Thanks for being honest! We're working on those articles as you speak and hopefully some will be ready after the New Year.

Great idea about that video series.

ywvm

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Well, I don't feel comfortable coaching 200 NL FR but if you want to do 100 NL that's fine.
My rates at 100 NL though are double those of the micro stakes so we're looking at $50/hour this month.

think i'll pass then - however for any players playing 10-50nl (and particularly 25nl), this deal represents a lot of value and I recommend going for it.

Daven, make your needs known in the FR and SH forums and ask for a PM or two. There are several guys on this site that will help for a couple buy-ins at your stakes.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Rating: 1142781/1143973

Thanks for the honest review, Rilla. You're right that our articles section is a bit sparse. We've wanted to focus on the videos that mean more to our subscribers. Still, that is an area we're working to improve.

And btw, that's an awesome rating. 99.89% =

- Jeffrey "JGB146" Blake, Grinderschool.com Admin

I bought in for a month, and for a full month I spent an hour to an hour and a half each day devouring videos.

It didn't help.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I bought in for a month, and for a full month I spent an hour to an hour and a half each day devouring videos.

It didn't help.

you suck

Let's try to keep things civil. Ragnar4 has every right to state his experience, and despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of our subscribers find the site very helpful, there are definitely those who don't as well. We've had a few regs at 200nl and above that subscribed to the site because of the price, for instance, and the only significant impact we had on their game came when AAPoker and I provided private coaching.

That said, I do think that I have the right and responsibility to respond to Ragnar4's statement. For clarification, he had only a micro stakes subscription, meaning he had access only to the ~50 or so micro stakes videos, rather than the entire set of videos. Naturally, the micro stakes videos are geared much more toward establishing solid basics than providing any mind-blowing revelations. These videos are more to get people ready for the rest of the site than to be an end in themselves. I certainly believe that anyone who puts the kind of effort Ragnar4 mentions into studying videos from our full selection will inevitably see major improvement.

- Jeffrey "JGB146" Blake, Grinderschool Admin

wait. So I have to subscribe to the higher than microstakes videos to learn to beat the micros?

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I bought in for a month, and for a full month I spent an hour to an hour and a half each day devouring videos.

It didn't help.

To be quite honest, you've been a member here for over 3 years so I don't know how much you expected us to deliver in a month.

I get 10 pm's a month from members thanking me and raving about their improvements because of my, and Spenda's vids ( and now Sugarnut's ) We have actually produced quite a few micro players to the $100NL and even $200NL levels in the recent past. Considering we have been around for only a year and had only about 15-20 members last Xmas, when we had about 20 vids, we are doing something right.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

wait. So I have to subscribe to the higher than microstakes videos to learn to beat the micros?

IMO, when compared to the micro stakes price, the full version is a sick value. For TWO DOLLARS more per month you get the upgrade, granted you must buy a 3 month subscription.

I never realized you've been around for 3 years...

I spent the first year in the commune. I spent the second learning how to play/beat Limit and I've only put myself towards NL at any sort of a "learn to beat it rate" for the last 9 or so months..

but yea..

I lurked here for a year too.. does that mean that in the 4 years of my time here, since I can't beat NL micros I'm a bad player?

Hell I've only been expressing superfrustration that I can't beat NL for the last 3 or so months.

what I'm trying to say: time spent in application towards an endeavor is waaay more valuable than simply hanging around the endeavor.

You know, a lot of people will say "if you can't beat the micros you suck at poker" etc.
but it takes work
I didn't beat the micro NL stakes until I read two-three books on NLHE and went to the FTR IRC

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Rating: 1142781/1143973

Thanks for the honest review, Rilla. You're right that our articles section is a bit sparse. We've wanted to focus on the videos that mean more to our subscribers. Still, that is an area we're working to improve.

And btw, that's an awesome rating. 99.89% =

- Jeffrey "JGB146" Blake, Grinderschool.com Admin

no one said it was a linear rating scale! it's like an inverted semi-log who knows what my rating really means?!

ragnar, after 1 year in the commune, you should have become such a complete human being that poker becomes a joke! maybe this is where your training went wrong. I suggest you subscribe to my site Post_count++

As a holiday special, anyone who purchases a three-month subscription to Grinderschool during the month of December will receive a fourth month for free. There's no restriction on this for existing members; if you renew for $35, you will have four months added to the expiration date of your subscription. Only purchases made during the month of December will qualify for this special.

Happy Holidays!
- Jeffrey "JGB146" Blake, Grinderschool Admin

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

I bought in for a month, and for a full month I spent an hour to an hour and a half each day devouring videos.

It didn't help.

To be quite honest, you've been a member here for over 3 years so I don't know how much you expected us to deliver in a month.

I get 10 pm's a month from members thanking me and raving about their improvements because of my, and Spenda's vids ( and now Sugarnut's ) We have actually produced quite a few micro players to the $100NL and even $200NL levels in the recent past. Considering we have been around for only a year and had only about 15-20 members last Xmas, when we had about 20 vids, we are doing something right.

The videos are awesome, but I will admit that they don't seem to make an immediate impact on my game. It's not like they make vids on "how to play AK" and then your +1.297 EV more profitable playing AK. They talk about their approach to the game, how they're thinking about tough spots and what range they're putting the villains on.

If you already play a position-based TAGG style when you show up, you won't get "change-your-game" revelations. But here's what I do when I'm watching a vid. I think ahead to what I would do. I try to glance at the hands before the action comes, think about my "default" play. When Spenda or Nut does something very different, I learn tons. When they do what I would have done, I learn even more 'cuz they tend to give a different perspective and a "why" that makes a lot more sense than my * shoulder shrug - BET * .

Over time, you watch solidly winning players make hundreds of high quality decisions at the micros. They talk about their experiences, their thoughts. They make (very rarely) bad plays but then turn around and admit it. They get bad beat, sucked out on, rivered. They reload and move on. They play well, make hero calls and soul reads. It's inspirational. It's +EV.