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Good/Bad Laydown?

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MrWee

10-21-2008, 05:42 PM Post subject: Good/Bad Laydown?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Edinburgh

Posts: 16

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
7 players

Stacks:
UTG vinczesz ($9.25)
UTG+1 _Soufie_ ($19.77)
MP TiltTibar ($6.90)
CO lizardman ($4.37)
BTN Hero ($10.62)
SB skyjacktssss ($9.52)
BB Kids4Chips ($9.58)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is BTN

vinczesz calls $0.10, _Soufie_ raises to $0.40, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.40, 2 folds, vinczesz folds

Flop:

($1.05, 2 players)
_Soufie_ bets $0.52, Hero calls $0.52

Turn:

($2.09, 2 players)
_Soufie_ bets $1.04, Hero folds

Would also appreciate thoughts on this:

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
9 players

Stacks:
UTG Remy07 ($21.51)
UTG+1 antimexxAA ($6.28)
MP1 Hero ($15.20)
MP2 lesthebeard ($18.09)
MP3 banjo150 ($2.76)
CO Kids4Chips ($32.33)
BTN vinczesz ($12.34)
SB chef666 ($4.28)
BB PAL72 ($9.90)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is MP1

Remy07 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, lesthebeard calls $0.40, 4 folds, PAL72 calls $0.30, Remy07 calls $0.30

Flop:

($1.65, 4 players)
PAL72 bets $0.82, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.82, 1 fold

Turn:

($3.29, 2 players)
PAL72 bets $0.82, Hero raises to $1.64, PAL72 calls $0.82

River:

($6.57, 2 players)
PAL72 checks, Hero bets $1.64, PAL72 calls $1.64

After villian's turn bet I reckoned he had a flush draw. Think the river bet was poor given anything in his calling range had me beat. Check behind?

Thanks

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al yell

10-21-2008, 05:52 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 515

hand 1: i think you're getting the right price to call and try to peal another 7 or J, otherwise try to show it down cheaply.

hand 2: the turn raise needs to be bigger to discourage a call from a hand that beats you. This way, too, if he calls you can be pretty sure he's not folding and you can give up. Even as played I'd still just check the River. but that's just my 2 cents.

When Push Comes To Shove

10-21-2008, 06:28 PM

#3 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

don't open limp the button, just raise
as played, I minraise the flop to hopefully get to check the turn behind if he's afraid you're minraising with a 7 to get more action, but you've already made the hand play weird by not raising PF

hand 2: I'm raising the flop for two reasons
first reason is I am the PFR, so he should bet pot or piss off
second reason is that my gutshot is not very good, since one of my outs is tainted. Same thing for overcard outs. BECAUSE I may get a straight and still lose to a flush card on the river, it's better to semi-bluff and try to take it down right here

his bet sizing is pretty suspect
but here's the most important thing:

if you put him on a flush draw, check it down on the river since you beat all flush draws except for AKs and ATs

so he may well show you a jack, a ten, or ace high
by betting you make ace high fold (except for maybe AQs or AKs), but pairs call you

you're beating ace high most of the time anyway, why not check it down?

sarbox68

10-21-2008, 06:33 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

I haven't played FR for a long time....

Hand #2: IMO, for your Turn bet to do anything but bloat the pot, it's gotta be closer to $3. I just don't see the min-raise doing squat. Even if he's only on a FD, he's got odds to call at 6:1. Again on the river... your only beating air, so betting has got to be bigger for a bluff. Either bluff like you got a pair, or check it down. I could see Tx (AT,KT,QT,T9 even ... esp sooted calling down as played. Maybe even someone with middle pockets who can't lay them down to that betsizing... but again, I don't play FR.

bigteif

10-21-2008, 07:12 PM

#5 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Are you really 3betting there on the flop I think calling is a perfectly fine play with that hand pre. I'm definitely reraising ther in position on the flop. He's continuation betting a good portion of hands and you have position and are making his flush draw costlier.

martindcx1e

10-21-2008, 07:59 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

hh doesn't show an open limp on the button. it shows him calling an utg+1 pfr on the button.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

MrWee

10-21-2008, 08:07 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Edinburgh

Posts: 16

Thanks for the responses guys. Hand 1 I considered raising but opted to call as I didn't think I was ahead of much of his range from utg+1.

For a variation on a theme... good call/bad call:

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
7 players

Stacks:
UTG mel80 ($14.21)
UTG+1 PAL72 ($19.75)
MP S3calhar ($10.88)
CO dbonline ($1.90)
BTN Marilyn ($2.22)
SB theflush13 ($9.85)
BB Hero ($10.10)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is BB

4 folds, Marilyn calls $0.10, theflush13 raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.40, Marilyn calls $0.40

Flop:

($1.50, 3 players)
theflush13 bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, Marilyn folds

Turn:

($3, 2 players)
theflush13 bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

River:

($6, 2 players)
theflush13 bets $3, Hero calls $3

Monty3038

10-21-2008, 08:13 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Ohio

Posts: 788

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWee

4 folds, Marilyn calls $0.10, theflush13 raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.40, Marilyn calls $0.40

Flop:

($1.50, 3 players)
theflush13 bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, Marilyn folds

Turn:

($3, 2 players)
theflush13 bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

River:

($6, 2 players)
theflush13 bets $3, Hero calls $3

I'm assuming from lack of results this hand didn't work out for you... IMO and I'm a fish, I raise it pre-flop, to 3x his bet... that should isolate to you two... if he calls, the flop comes as expected, and he bets into it, 1/2 pot or above, makes his hand pretty well defined, I think at that point he has potentially top pair... you have to really look at his history/read to decide to continue... sets (TT is within his range from SB... 77/88 possible though not as likely...) Or am I way off here guys?

martindcx1e

10-21-2008, 08:14 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

His range is pretty tight as he's raising from the SB, and I don't think you are getting 3-barreled by a missed AK/AQ when straight and flush draws complete.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

tom

10-21-2008, 08:28 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: ATX

Posts: 158

on the last hand you posted(JJ) my first inclination is to call pf and raise his flop bet.
Any validity to this line?

martindcx1e

10-21-2008, 08:34 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom

on the last hand you posted(JJ) my first inclination is to call pf and raise his flop bet.
Any validity to this line?

i think that's fine

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

AFchung

10-21-2008, 10:40 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWee

4 folds, Marilyn calls $0.10, theflush13 raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.40, Marilyn calls $0.40

Flop:

($1.50, 3 players)
theflush13 bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, Marilyn folds

Turn:

($3, 2 players)
theflush13 bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

River:

($6, 2 players)
theflush13 bets $3, Hero calls $3

i think i would've preferred a re-raise on the flop. that board is really looking ugly

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

MrWee

10-21-2008, 11:14 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Edinburgh

Posts: 16

Thanks for the replies. Didn't 3bet preflop due to his tight range in the sb but all things considered I think raising the flop would've have been better than flatting. By the time the river came I really thought it was a crying call. Felt like I was out of step the whole way through the hand.

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