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Lukie
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07-05-2006, 04:17 PM
Post subject: Going with your gut feeling...
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I could probably make this a very long, detailed post, and one that I could give a lot of examples of. But I'm going to try to keep it short and sweet. This is a topic that's been written about many times (on FTR included), but I felt it was worthwhile to write about it anyway.
Often times I'll be confronted with a situation that seems so standard it seems blatantly boring. Or I'll be looking over a hand in pokertracker where I got stacked, where it would be very easy to just say 'variance, cold decks, whatever', when I knew almost for certain what the other guy had at the time. Not because he played his hand 'face-up', so to speak, but because at that moment in time, during that one exact hand, your subconcious gathered enough information about the hand without you even knowing, from the bet sizes, timing of bets, etc., where your gut feeling is often correct a much higher percentage of the time then what you could ever come up with while thinking about the hand at a later date (or without actually playing in it).
Basically, I have no idea where I wanted to go with this post, but whenever I'm in a pot for a large amount of money (playing for stacks), my gut feeling has been right the vast, vast majority of the time, whether I followed it or not.
That's all.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Trust your gut, always.
I don't think people realize how much of their information processing and decision making functions move to a subconscious level as they become more experienced. When in doubt, I've learned to always let my gut have the last word. Sometimes it tells me to fold when I think I should call, sometimes the opposite, but it's my best friend in helping me win the most when I'm ahead and losing the least when I'm behind. When I ignore it I always regret it.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Yeah I totally know what you mean. I think this is a crucial thing when getting better.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
I think this is crucial to becoming a great player.
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fyp
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pantherhound
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Love me for a season
Posts: 492
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great post. Sometimes the texture just feels like you're beat even if you have a monster. but you feel you can't release because there's few hands out there that beat you.
trusting your gut in those situations is more difficult but as we get better as players our instincts tell us that according to a specific read on villain he would never have played a worse hand like that. trusting those instincts is another thing when holding a monster yourself.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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I have felt it before every set<set that I have experience.
I have called and got stacked everytime.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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you usually only remember when your gut is right, though.
mines probably been wrong a good portion of the time.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Anaemik
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 121
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TJ Cloutier in Championship No Limit and Pot Limit Holdem:
"Your first instincts are better than 95 percent correct if you're a poker player. That's because your first instinct comes from all the training and practice and skills that you've learned over the years. What you think after your first instinct is the type of thinking that goes , "What hands can I beat?" You never think about the hands you can beat. "Do I have the best hand?" is what you should be thinking."
Which is pretty much what Warpe said.
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Bloodninja: I cast Lvl 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman...
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Werddown
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07-05-2006, 09:35 PM
Post subject: Re: Going with your gut feeling...
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#9 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 302
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Today, 9 hands came up where my gut told me I was beat.
Each time, I ignored my gut, looked at their stats, looked at their play, and said "Bullshit!" and called.
I lost every time. Got stacked every time.
Fortunately I was lucky enough to run well today and only come out down half a buy-in.
The moral of the story is, your gut feeling is one of the most important things in poker. Without a read, faced with a tough decision, TRUST YOUR GUT@!!!!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
mines probably been wrong a good portion of the time.
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QFT. Make the best play when the money makes it clear.
Go with your gut when it's close.
Pay attention. Reads > Gut.
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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I think going with your gut is what makes a poker player great
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
I think going with your gut is what makes a poker player great
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People keep saying stuff like this at the poker table, then they re-buy for another half rack...
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
I think going with your gut is what makes a poker player great
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People keep saying stuff like this at the poker table, then they re-buy for another half rack... |
With all due respect Fnord, I think what the "gut" proponents are talking about here, myself included, is a very different thing from what the guys who rely on divine intervention are talking about. Those are the guys that having nothing else to rely on but their gut. Fortunately for us, it's usually indigestion.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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the problem with your "gut feelings" are in general they can never be corrected. If you call and your gut is right, hey its right! if you fold, hey your gut was right! if you call and are wrong, it is easy enough to minimize and forget about, as you probably feel like you should've won it anyway. its the same way that everyone KNOWS their flush draw is going to hit: their gut tells them it will, and hey i was right last time!
that's not to say you should ignore your gut, but i'm only using it in very tight situations.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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I think that going with your gut is what makes the great poker players great poker players but its not for everyone playing like a machine will get you far and make you alot of money but I don't think it will get you into the 4,000/8,000 game anytime soon. the thing is everyone who starts to play poker thinks that they are this good
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Dear any beginners reading,
FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN THIS THREAD AND GO BACK TO PUTTING VILLAINS ON RANGES, COUNTING YOUR OUTS AND FOLDING TPWK TO AN ALL IN KTHX.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
Dear any beginners reading,
FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN THIS THREAD AND GO BACK TO PUTTING VILLAINS ON RANGES, COUNTING YOUR OUTS AND FOLDING TPWK TO AN ALL IN KTHX.
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lol i never argued against any of this
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Chicago_Kid
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
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I have to be honest here, I think my gut can be darn good at times but wrong just as often. I can have "flashes of brillance" but I seem to remember the times that I make the sucker play that prevents me from a "pwn-ifing" w/r.
I think what is important here is to understand and determine the difference between your real gut and that other voice that says "there's no way that donk hit it". I find it's a constant battle which causes me to call off lots of chips, particlarly over the past couple months.
There are times where I'm so zoned in, I just seem to make great plays (correct calls, good laydowns, good pot management, etc.) over and over, and other times where I'll misfire BIG 3-4 times in a session. I think this is because my other voice (sourced from pride, tilt, boredom, etc.) that costs me chips.
I've been working on some mental training to build my focus and confidence at the table, as an attempt to bring my right mindset to the table each session. I've been reading Terry Orlick, who trains world class athletes on the mental approach. He has a pretty good book out there called "In Pursuit of Excellence: How to Win in Sport and Life Through Mental Training". A bit cheesy at times, but it's worth checking out if you are interested in this angle.
Wondering what others do to get themselves sharp...
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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my gut usually tells me to fold, where my brain says"man he's bluffing", I call, I lose, and say F*** I knew I shoulda folded.
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Wondering what others do to get themselves sharp...
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I usually just masturbate 6 or 7 times before I start playing.
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
Quote:
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Wondering what others do to get themselves sharp...
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I usually just masturbate 6 or 7 times before I start playing. |
Nope, tried that......I lose my aggressiveness......need to keep the testosterone in, until after the game.
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
Quote:
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Wondering what others do to get themselves sharp...
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I usually just masturbate 6 or 7 times before I start playing. |
What's funny is this guy is serious. He might be low-balling us a bit, but he's serious.
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grnydrowave2
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Showin' mah Pokemans
Posts: 651
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hahaha.. I might rub one out after a bad session, but that is ridiculous.
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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What's funny is this guy is serious. He might be low-balling us a bit, but he's serious.
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I'll show you low-balling, mister
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