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Getting Owndizzled at 5NL

  
 
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Dash
Old 11-03-2009, 03:15 PM     Post subject: Getting Owndizzled at 5NL #1 (permalink)  
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Dash
Wow, big difference from 2NL, which I think I had dominated.

The hardest part is losing big hands and seriously denting the still fragile BR at this level.

I moved up wiith $158 and have lost 3 hands similar to this one:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($4.55)
Button ($3.37)
SB ($10.20)
Hero (BB) ($6)
UTG ($5.74)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
UTG bets $0.10, MP calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, UTG calls $0.20, MP calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.92) 8, J, 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.75, UTG calls $0.75, MP calls $0.75

Turn: ($3.17) 10 (3 players)
Hero bets $1.90, UTG calls $1.90, 1 fold

River: ($6.97) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.55, Hero calls $0.55

Total pot: $8.07 | Rake: $0.35


Another hand I lost with KK when the flush caught on the river, and the other I was leading with TPTK until the straight caught up on the river as well. Each of these hands cost me over $5. So, I'm perilously close to moving back down.

As I said in my op, I guess I'll just nit up and hope the much higher aggression levels pay me off when I hit.

Suggestions? Warm cuddly reassurances?
 
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Da GOAT
Old 11-03-2009, 03:41 PM #2 (permalink)  
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your bets preflop and turn are too small. river is fine tho c/f to a big bet.
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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Jason
Old 11-03-2009, 04:11 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 My first suggestion is to NOT move back down unless or until you hit $100. If you started $5NL with $150, then you need to give yourself a full shot to succeed or 10 buy-ins. Moving down too early to try to make up losses only stymies your progress. It takes a while to earn 3 buy-ins @ even $2NL to make up for one lost buy-in @ $5NL. You don't know if the losses are luck, bad play, or whatever. That's why you move up when you have 30 buy-ins so you won't move DOWN until you have 20. If you're just going to move down when you lose a couple of buy-ins, you could have done that @ 22 buy-ins or whenever. You're not "taking a shot" and having to worry about moving down. You're playing $5NL because THAT is where you should be and you don't need to worry about $2NL until you drop to $100 which would still be 50 BUY-ins @ $2NL.

Next, EVERY time a player moves up in stakes, it feels different and harder. For whatever it's worth, I found $5NL easier than $2NL, although I started off down a few buy-ins, too. It's all in your head due to subtle differences that add up. Just because something is different doesn't mean the games are harder or a lot harder.

If your normal play is to "nit up and hope", then "nit up and hope", but I recommend focus playing the same style of play that brought you success @ $2NL and play THAT style while still learning and making adjustments as needed. If you start to play different out of fear of losing, then you will surely lose.

I think your biggest problem is the psychology of losing. It's clear to me that thought of losing money bothers you. You have an attachment to what you have already won and it's causing conflict in your decision to move up, move down, and to play your normal game. Work on overcoming that and you should be fine.

Good luck.
- Jason
 
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spoonitnow
Old 11-03-2009, 04:37 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Consider the odds you're giving your opponents preflop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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stonyman
Old 11-03-2009, 05:53 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Get more money in PF with the AA. You had UTG and MP both in the hand. I would normally size my bets at 4xBB +1 for each limper. So that would put you at your 6 BB raise but the UTG minraised and MP called so I would probably looking at 8BB.

On the flop I would lead out with a pot sized bet.
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Vinland
Old 11-03-2009, 09:31 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Another hand I lost with KK when the flush caught on the river, and the other I was leading with TPTK until the straight caught up on the river as well. Each of these hands cost me over $5. So, I'm perilously close to moving back down.

As I said in my op, I guess I'll just nit up and hope the much higher aggression levels pay me off when I hit.

Suggestions? Warm cuddly reassurances?
Cuddly reassurances???? No such thing......man up....


Having your KK's cracked by a rivered flush does not mean you are getting owned at 5nl.....
You just need to get used to the larger pot sizes and don't worry about a few stacks lost.
Just keep value betting your made hands and watch on the river when they bet into you. If a fairly weak player who mostly calls all of a sudden bets/reraises the river, you have to start thinking what hands you beat and quickly breakdown your hand strength compared to his range he would hold.
There is a difference from 2nl but its not huge.....they are just as bad, they just play fewer hands and play a bit weaker in general.

As Jason said, allow for 10 BI loss. Dont drop down after losing a couple of BI's, give yourself until about $100. But you wont get to that point, b/c you'll get your head on straight, read some threads here and make the right calls...

Quote:
As I said in my op, I guess I'll just nit up and hope the much higher aggression levels pay me off when I hit.
That will make for boring poker. Just play your game and watch for leaks. Nitting it up will not teach you how to exploit the bad players. Just keep playing a solid range and look to win blinds when you can.
I confess in quicksand
 
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Vinland
Old 11-03-2009, 09:31 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Another hand I lost with KK when the flush caught on the river, and the other I was leading with TPTK until the straight caught up on the river as well. Each of these hands cost me over $5. So, I'm perilously close to moving back down.

As I said in my op, I guess I'll just nit up and hope the much higher aggression levels pay me off when I hit.

Suggestions? Warm cuddly reassurances?
Cuddly reassurances???? No such thing......man up....


Having your KK's cracked by a rivered flush does not mean you are getting owned at 5nl.....
You just need to get used to the larger pot sizes and don't worry about a few stacks lost.
Just keep value betting your made hands and watch on the river when they bet into you. If a fairly weak player who mostly calls all of a sudden bets/reraises the river, you have to start thinking what hands you beat and quickly breakdown your hand strength compared to his range he would hold.
There is a difference from 2nl but its not huge.....they are just as bad, they just play fewer hands and play a bit weaker in general.

As Jason said, allow for 10 BI loss. Dont drop down after losing a couple of BI's, give yourself until about $100. But you wont get to that point, b/c you'll get your head on straight, read some threads here and make the right calls...

Quote:
As I said in my op, I guess I'll just nit up and hope the much higher aggression levels pay me off when I hit.
That will make for boring poker. Just play your game and watch for leaks. Nitting it up will not teach you how to exploit the bad players. Just keep playing a solid range and look to win blinds when you can.
I confess in quicksand
 
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acoss3006
Old 11-03-2009, 09:38 PM     Post subject: Re: Getting Owndizzled at 5NL #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash

Another hand I lost with KK when the flush caught on the river, and the other I was leading with TPTK until the straight caught up on the river as well. Each of these hands cost me over $5.
Value bet obviously. But remember neither of these are the nuts..
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nonofyobiz
Old 11-03-2009, 10:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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nonofyobiz
Just look at the hands you lost, did u get your money in good? If you did and u still lost the hand then that's nothing to get upset about. YOu know u just have to keep playing and u'll make money.

I moved up to 5NL a little while ago and I went on a brutal slump as well. I was running bad, playing bad, and sometimes tilting and I went down from 150 to like 88 or something.

I knew there was no way in hell i was gonna lose my whole roll here b/c i saw how these guys were playing against me and winning. Anyways things went my way for a month. ...won like 10 sessions in a row at one point and got up to 200. Point is...it can turn around just as quickly so def don't be so hasty to move down.
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