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Getting married to AA

  
 
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Revolver123
Old 02-07-2009, 04:27 AM     Post subject: Getting married to AA #1 (permalink)  
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At first I thought this was a bad beat. But then after thinking about it, I reailzed AA only wins ~82% of the time, the other 18% it loses. So somewhere in that 18%, it needs to be thrown away.

Here's the hand. Read on the villain - tight ABC, I put him on KJ+

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($6.06)
SB ($4.18)
BB ($7.62)
UTG ($2.11)
UTG+1 ($3.30)
MP1 ($6.29)
MP2 ($3.93)
MP3 ($6.12)
CO ($1.92)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.62) J, K, 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.35, BB calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.32) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.20, BB raises to $6.60, Hero calls $4.26 (All-In)

River: ($12.24) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $12.24 | Rake: $0.60

I was thinking on the shove that he hit two pair. Trips crossed my mind but it was difficult to put him on JJ or KK because of no 3 bet. I screwed up getting married to AA but it's difficult to fold on a board like that.
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Illfavor
Old 02-07-2009, 05:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Pot Flop.

Turn Check raises at microstakes = Nuts. Yes it is very hard to fold here, but it's usually not a one pair hand you're facing.
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Revolver123
Old 02-07-2009, 05:14 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hard for me to pot it though on a rainbow board. I like to extract value from my aces... is that a leak?
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Biglines
Old 02-07-2009, 05:17 AM #4 (permalink)  
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If you are saying that you should always fold AA when you opponent shoves, you are wrong.
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Illfavor
Old 02-07-2009, 05:18 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Maybe not pot it, like $.45. I just think that bet is a little too small. I really like to get the money in, and they usually pay you off.
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Robb
Old 02-07-2009, 05:34 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 What hands do villains call with preflop from the blinds in your game? Which of those hands are likely to take a check/call flop, check/raise turn line?
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Revolver123
Old 02-07-2009, 05:57 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
What hands do villains call with preflop from the blinds in your game? Which of those hands are likely to take a check/call flop, check/raise turn line?
At my stakes I think he would call a PF raise from the BB with any pocket pair, maybe suited connect and QJo+

I think he would c/c the flop and c/r the turn with trips or two pair. So possible he had 22 or KJ but I just don't see him not 3 betting JJ and def not KK
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Revolver123
Old 02-07-2009, 08:04 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I really thought about this hand alot and I think I should've found a fold somewhere.

I'm also going to add here that he turned up JJ.

The hands that beat me here are KK JJ 22 KJ K5 J5

As much as I want to fold the turn, can I really do it against a flat call from the BB PF and I'm on the button? He has to know I have a HUUUUGE range on the button and would def 3 bet JJ and KK vs that. So it would come down to him landing a set with 22 or that two pair with KJ.

I don't know. How many of you could find a fold in this play or is it strictly reads on the villain dependant? It's hard to throw away the most profitable hand in poker.
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hangchiong
Old 02-07-2009, 12:04 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
What hands do villains call with preflop from the blinds in your game? Which of those hands are likely to take a check/call flop, check/raise turn line?
Would expect Villain to 3bet KK here.

Your read was villain was tight-ABC.Put him on a range of BB-cold calling.

66+,AT+,KT+.

Looking on the flop texture,when the villain c/c,we could put him on a tigher range.

When villain c/r the turn,we should defitenely come up with more hands that we are behind than we are ahead of.

Its bad to say when we have AA,villain shoves turn->fold?
We could fold if we figure out his range on a narrow basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
The hands that beat me here are KK JJ 22 KJ K5 J5
Would you put a tight ABC player cold calling with K5,KJ?
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bjsaust
Old 02-07-2009, 12:10 PM     Post subject: Re: Getting married to AA #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
At first I thought this was a bad beat. But then after thinking about it, I reailzed AA only wins ~82% of the time, the other 18% it loses. So somewhere in that 18%, it needs to be thrown away.
Heres the problem with aces. They win about 80% of the time when you get ai PF v's a single hand. Once we hit the flop though, the question becomes how often do they win v's the hands that continue after the flop?
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Robb
Old 02-07-2009, 02:50 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hangchiong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
What hands do villains call with preflop from the blinds in your game? Which of those hands are likely to take a check/call flop, check/raise turn line?
Would expect Villain to 3bet KK here.

Your read was villain was tight-ABC.Put him on a range of BB-cold calling.

66+,AT+,KT+.

Looking on the flop texture,when the villain c/c,we could put him on a tigher range.

When villain c/r the turn,we should defitenely come up with more hands that we are behind than we are ahead of.

Its bad to say when we have AA,villain shoves turn->fold?
We could fold if we figure out his range on a narrow basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
The hands that beat me here are KK JJ 22 KJ K5 J5
Would you put a tight ABC player cold calling with K5,KJ?
HC, I like your thinking in this post. Check/call flop, check/raise turn is one of the classic set lines (but don't get results oriented - it could be KJ, here, too). That said, I sometimes stack off to this line with an AA overpair. When you have a read, and someone who's passive post flop wakes up and check raises you all-in, you have to feel like you're behind. When an aggressive player does the same, it makes you wonder, and I've won whole stacks against 2nd pair and hopeless draws at 10nl looking people up. It's all about reads and ranges. The wider his range is on the turn, the more we proftiably call. I don't think sets are ever NOT in his range with this line, so we've got to be pretty certain there are lots of other combos (ones we can beat) still in his range or we're overall way behind.
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jyms
Old 02-07-2009, 02:58 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 If you have a note that says he will do the stack a donk line (C/C, C/R) w/TP then it's ok to continue. But most players are doing this vs your TP hand hoping your married to it. Betting a little more on the flop and less on the turn makes it easier to fold. Since you can do this with your draws, two barrel bluffs and other hands as well but check behind most rivers when you hand just wants a showdown.

Your read says fold.
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:40 PM #13 (permalink)  
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I know he put him on KJ+, but I've seen AK playing for stacks like this so this is not an automatic fold.

What I'd like to know is whether villain 3b AK here, and what's villain's aggression frequency on the turn... and whether we're playing really aggressively and beating up on people because when you tilt people they start to shove on you wider

or maybe I am a donk
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HarleyGuy13
Old 02-07-2009, 09:09 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver123
Hard for me to pot it though on a rainbow board. I like to extract value from my aces... is that a leak?
YES
and I have/had the same leak. Seems EVERY time I play it this way they end up hiting their draw or just sucking out. I had a discussion this morning on IRC with some of the regs. Basically if you play a hand like this properly then you can truly walk away saying O'well I got it in with the best of it. But if because we fail to controll the pot and allow them to beat us then shame on us!
"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

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