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Getting donked into with marginal top pair [$10nl 6-max]

  
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-08-2009, 09:42 AM     Post subject: Getting donked into with marginal top pair [$10nl 6-max] #1 (permalink)  
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 This is an interesting hand that has sort of baffled me every time I look at it.

This was awhile ago, a month perphaps. This was Villains second lap or so at the table, and from what I remember, he was showing signs of being active/aggressive thus far. Perhaps a little too far on the aggressive side, but its tough to tell since I haven't seen him play long enough to get a feel for his range/tendencies. FWIW this is the first river he went to.

The turn just feels really akward, I imagine he's going to 3-bomb here...do I really want to station off my stack? Does anyone fold if the flop did not have a flush draw?

FWIW I remember his bets being very quick. Not sure if anyone has experience as to what that usually means giving the limited information we have here.

River is just fucked, he did this at about the same pace as all the other bets. How weighted do you guys think this would be a busted flush draw vs top/pair or sets?

How's my line on the flop and turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($16.60)
Hero (Button) ($10)
SB ($11.30)
BB ($10)
UTG ($12.35)
MP ($5.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K
3 folds, Hero bets $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 7, K, 5 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.70, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

Turn: ($2.30) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $1.70, Hero calls $1.70

River: ($5.70) Q (2 players)
BB bets $7.30 (All-In), Hero...
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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amifat
Old 04-08-2009, 10:15 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Yeah I don't know if i call here and make a note or i fold here and make a note, you did under rep your hand here alot by just calling to the river.

This is the kind of situation which i think requires abit of maths but i cant even put villian on a range here, how about raising the flop or turn here to avoid these kind of situations?, shouldnt we be getting our villian to pay for his draws and also narrow down his range if he calls or folds?
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Lucothefish
Old 04-08-2009, 10:28 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 He may have put you on a draw with all that flat calling you did and is shoving you off with air, but I doubt it. Just about everything he would have taken this line with beats you. Easy fold.
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-08-2009, 10:39 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amifat
Yeah I don't know if i call here and make a note or i fold here and make a note, you did under rep your hand here alot by just calling to the river.

This is the kind of situation which i think requires abit of maths but i cant even put villian on a range here, how about raising the flop or turn here to avoid these kind of situations?, shouldnt we be getting our villian to pay for his draws and also narrow down his range if he calls or folds?
haha, my exact thoughts, or else this would have just been a standard calculation for the notebook.

And yeah I thought about raising the flop but at the same time I didn't want to build a huge pot with a marginal hand, so I just called :/ Kind of a weird spot, when I look back though I think if I'm going to call the turn I might as well raise the flop right? (for the reasons you stated)
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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AFchung
Old 04-08-2009, 11:10 AM #5 (permalink)  
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i think flop is fine, not too sure about the turn but it might be fine, and river is a clear fold
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:53 PM #6 (permalink)  
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the flop is like the easiest call in the world?
the river is an easy fold without a read that he's a frequent bluffer and it sounds like you don't really have a read, but you made one up after you played the hand

not sure about the turn
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-08-2009, 06:56 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
the flop is like the easiest call in the world?
the river is an easy fold without a read that he's a frequent bluffer and it sounds like you don't really have a read, but you made one up after you played the hand

not sure about the turn
what? i folded the river so how do does hindsight come up here..
of course folding the flop isn't an option.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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STHollywood
Old 04-08-2009, 07:40 PM #8 (permalink)  
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why would you ever raise the flop or turn here? Raising to "see where you are at" is just poor.

I think the river is just a fold unless he is really loose and aggro
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SushiWizard
Old 04-08-2009, 11:28 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I think its close between a call and fold on river. If you think about what hes doing that with, its a very narrow range. Hes not doing this with KQ AK, there are no straights, or flushes out. You said he may be too aggressive? Maybe he can do this with 8c9c? Ac5c? I think when you call the turn bet, he could put you on one pair and figure that you cannot stand the river action? Otherwise he is doing this with weird 2 pairs and sets and the line he took in this hand doesnt really add up. I would have looked him up and just made a note, but I tend to get curious when someone's line looks funny. Although I think folding is definately okay without a solid read.
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-08-2009, 11:30 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 hes just shown to be aggro so far, hes def. not a passive fish, I don't have any history or useful stats on him though to determine a very accurate range.

I think his range might be really polarized here, meaning he either has a busted draw or a set.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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tyrn
Old 04-09-2009, 12:55 AM     Post subject: Re: Getting donked into with marginal top pair [$10nl 6-max] #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
FWIW I remember his bets being very quick. Not sure if anyone has experience as to what that usually means giving the limited information we have here.
Quick bets usually mean polarized hand strength, since he doesn't need to spend time thinking about how he should proceed with a medium strong hand. Since he's BB and got raised into PF, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. While sets are possible, I think he may be doing this with a strong king, KQ is a definite possibility.

Got any stats on him?
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