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Gettign better or running hot or just got lucky??

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Hotfrog

05-30-2008, 12:08 AM Post subject: Gettign better or running hot or just got lucky??

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 62

I posted this in FR but thought it would probably be more at home here....

Felt i played fairly well finishing up with +$9 on .01/.02 FR on Stars. I dont think i was just running hot as i actually read the board and felt that i was ahead in the hands i won. Having said this I know ive still got a looooong way to go. Have a look at these and tell me what i did right/wrong:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($1.71)
MP1 ($2.34)
MP2 ($2.36)
CO ($1.03)
Button ($5.14)
SB ($2.79)
Hero ($3)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, T

.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.1, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.08, CO calls $0.08, SB calls $0.08.

Flop: ($0.42) T

, Q

, 8

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.1, MP2 calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, SB folds.

Turn: ($0.72) 6

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.02, CO raises to $0.06, Hero folds, MP2 raises to $0.1, CO calls $0.04.

River: ($0.92) J

(2 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets $0.1, MP2 raises to $0.42, CO calls $0.32.

Final Pot: $1.76

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($5.27)
Button ($5.58)
SB ($0.95)
BB ($5.80)
UTG ($6.57)
UTG+1 ($8.38)
MP1 ($12.95)
Hero ($3.35)
MP3 ($6.62)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K

, Q

. MP1 posts a blind of $0.02. Hero posts a blind of $0.05.
1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $0.12.

Flop: ($0.17) 9

, 2

, T

(8 players)
Sex.Poke checks, Sex.Poke calls $0.10.

Turn: ($0.27) 4

(8 players)
Sex.Poke checks, Sex.Poke calls $0.20.

River: ($0.47) 9

(8 players)
Sex.Poke checks, Sex.Poke calls $0.70.

Final Pot: $1.07

The winners:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($2.24)
BB ($3.27)
UTG ($5.14)
MP ($1)
CO ($2.61)
Hero ($4.91)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J

, Q

. MP posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.02, MP (poster) checks, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04, UTG calls $0.04, MP calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04.

Flop: ($0.31) 2

, Q

, J

(5 players)
BB bets $0.06, UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls $0.06, Hero raises to $0.42, BB calls $0.36, CO folds.

Turn: ($1.21) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.5, BB raises to $1, Hero raises to $4.43, BB calls $1.79 (All-In).

River: ($6.79) 2

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $6.79

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($5.35)
UTG+1 ($3.77)
MP1 ($0.97)
MP2 ($5)
MP3 ($3.04)
CO ($7.44)
Hero ($2.68)
SB ($4.38)
BB ($5.32)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, T

. MP2 posts a blind of $0.02.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP2 (poster) checks, 1 fold, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.1, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.08, MP2 folds, CO calls $0.08.

Flop: ($0.35) Q

, 6

, J

(3 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO bets $0.58, Hero raises to $2.58, UTG+1 folds, CO calls $2.

Turn: ($5.51) 2

(2 players)

River: ($5.51) A

(2 players)

Final Pot: $5.51

Some pretty serious leaks right? dont be gentle......

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Stacks

05-30-2008, 01:13 AM Post subject: Re: Gettign better or running hot or just got lucky??

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,605

I'm not all that experienced, so take any advice cautiously.

Hand 1 / ATs
Here in the BB with 4 limpers I wouldn't raise this up. Not a great hand and you will be oop postflop if you get a callers. Another thing is your raise size here preflop you raised 5xbb with 4 limpers. General rule is 4xbb + 1bb per limper so that owuld be 8bb here.

Postflop your not looking so hot here. I would have checked preflop and check/fold this flop. Against 4 other players someone could be sitting on a Q, two pair, or even a flopped flush. However, if you did have a hand worth betting here on the flop you bet way to little. Anyone with a strong spade in there hand is getting pot odds to call, for a flush (5.2:1. Only need 4:1 to see one card).

Hand 2 / KQo
This Hand History is messed up for me, so no advice. Try reposting it if you want.

Hand 3 / JQs
No real solid advice on whether you should play this hand here or not, simply because I play Full Ring when I play cash, and never stay at the table under 7 players. However, if this is a raise preflop on the button with limpers then you still raised to small. You raised 3xbb when you should have raised 7xbb (unless standard raising is different with less people here. I'm not sure)

Other than preflop I feel you played it rather well. I like the pot sized raise on the flop. On the turn I bet a little more than .50c. That's not even half pot. I'd bet around .80-.90c here if not $1. I figure if he didn't believe you had the Q on the flop he now discredits even more, so if he was coming along with a weaker queen he is def calling a bet that size and if he is continuing on flop with a J then he will still come along here. Nice reshove there.

Hand 4 / KTs
I won't even offer advice here because I'm a nit and would have probably folded preflop here, which is probably not the best play.

Good luck and wait for better player's advice lol.

kmind

05-30-2008, 02:50 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

1.Just limp behind. You are out of position and (without reads) I doubt you have much FE anyways vs. the limpers. As played, just c/f. 4 handed with a billion draws and a Q, your hand will never be in good shape. Def. don't bet 1/4 pot at your stakes ever. I like your turn play if that helps.

2. Converter is messed up

3. Because there are limpers you need to jack your preflop raise up to like 6bb normally but at these stakes as many bbs as it takes to try to get it HU. Don't bet less than half pot on turn if you are going to bet.If you had like AQ and opponent had T9 you'd want to bet larger to deny him odds and make him make a bigger mistake because they'll call larger bets.

4.Preflop is meh. I don't mind it if most fold but at these stakes it's pretty tough to do. On flop some guy overbets and you ship. You have an OESD but what makes draws profitable is FE and we have none with his bet sizing. Just fold on flop.

Also your sample size is incredibly low. Your vpip is really high, not sure what the better FR players run so I will let them chime in. I'd attempt to steal a little above 30%.

jyms

05-30-2008, 03:57 AM

#4 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

The hands have been covered but I want to talk about your stats a bit. Your playing way to loose. Most of thes hands were played poorly preflop regardless of the outcome. Your playing 25% of your hands from the SB which is way too much at these stakes. Your not raising enough and when you do your folding too often (W$WSF)Should be about 38 to 40 or more. Your won at showdown shows you win more than 50% of the pots your in which means your winning small pots and losing bigger ones. Win money not pots. Learn more about pot control at these stakes. Stop bluffing, start betting your good hands and never slow play. Your check/folding too much on the turn. Start bet/folding instead. Try to minimize Check/calling on all streets, but mostly on the turn and river. Learn more about bet sizing and you will be fine. stop over thinking $5NL and start folding those mediocre hands preflop that you don't want to play for stacks.

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animal_chin

05-30-2008, 04:00 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: On the grind slavin' daily.

Posts: 180

I don't think his vpip is that high (note I am a noob). I remember when everyone claimed the prefect full ring stats were like 19/10. Right now the consensus seems to have changed and full ring stats should be around 18/16. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong because these are the stats I'm shooting for. So try raising more. I agree with the standard 4xbb + 1bb for every limper, although sometimes if I raise from the blinds I raise more b/c you're out of position and don't want many callers. Your aggression factor is nice to see, you don't want to be a nit, but you could steel blind more, like kmid said the consensus seems to be 30% is a good number.

jyms

05-30-2008, 04:03 AM

#6 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

18/16 is for stakes where they can fold. I think until the $25nL level I would run closer to 14/11. Nobody's watching and you have less trouble spots.

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Robb

05-30-2008, 04:04 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by animal_chin

I don't think his vpip is that high (note I am a noob).

KT and QJs are not good hands. PokerStove may rank them in the top 10%, but they don't play well postflop (except when you flop the immortal nuts). They are easily dominated and extremely difficult to play oop. QJs is listed in the Top 8%, and KTo is in the Top 16% according to the Stove, but remember these are "all-in preflop" equity estimates. Those numbers have nothing to do with how "playable" these hands are. Jyms is right - this is way too loose (especially oop) for 6max or FR at the micros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by animal_chin

I remember when everyone claimed the prefect full ring stats were like 19/10. Right now the consensus seems to have changed and full ring stats should be around 18/16. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong because these are the stats I'm shooting for.

There are no perfect stats. And remember that 2 numbers can't define your game. How often you raise or call preflop is differentially effective based on how aggressively you play on the flop and turn. My best results for 10nl FR were playing something like 12/11/4, and my best results at 10nl 6max end up at 18/16/6 or something like that. I play nearly 3 times more hands from the button than I do UTG, and I try to keep away from completing in the SB and calling small raises from BB. Committing chips from the blinds usually just wastes them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by animal_chin

You could steel blind more, like kmid said the consensus seems to be 30% is a good number.

You should steal at least 20%, imo, and I shoot for high 20's or around 30. Trying to steal much more than 30% is not profitable at micros, imo, as you end up getting called/raised too often when you have complete junk. But if I stay agro enough pre, I'm stealing almost 30% of the time. Remember to steal from the cutoff, too!!

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

mixchange

05-30-2008, 11:39 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Try Holdem Manager to see if you are really running hot or not.

Hotfrog

06-01-2008, 07:13 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 62

Thanks guys, some really good feedback.

So I got right, I need to tighten massivley!? I thought that 19/10 was not too bad but i guess thats why im loosing money huh!. I have a problems with getting PFR any higher. I use Pokerstove to show me my starting range and anything that falls into that 20% i raise. I guess that this is also a leak, too loose?

Robb

06-01-2008, 11:18 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotfrog

10/8 is tight in FR, 7/6 is super-tight, but both are pretty likely to win money at the micros since no one's paying attention, and their big hands will still get action.

There's nothing guaranteeing that tightening up will make you a winning player. But most of us who went from being losing players to being winning players did so by tightening up for many thousands of hands, until we learned the game.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

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