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drtofu66
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05-27-2006, 04:43 PM
Post subject: General thoughts on situation
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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This sort of thing happens a lot and I'm losing more than I need to and not winning enough, I think.
Imagine even stacks, 100BB for everyone at a 10NL full ring table.
In the SB we are dealt QcJd
6 limpers, we complete, BB checks.
Pot: $0.80
Flop QsJc3s.
What's your approach and plan on this draw heavy board OOP? I used to lead for 1/2-2/3 pot but if there's one early caller, that gives everyone else after him good odds to chase their OESD or FD. Do you Pot or overbet it slightly, check/call down a reasonable bet if a K, A, 8, 9 or spade hits?
If you turn a FH that doesn't complete the flush-- how much do you bet to keep the chasers in if it's HU or 2 others are in the pot (without a read that the others will aggressively bet draws, of course)?
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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In this situation, 2/3 pot is just asking for trouble. Make it atleast $1 to go.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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TLR
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,007
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You have a very good flop, most likely you have the best hand but there are many possible draws, with everybody limping you can pretty much rule out QQ and maybe JJ, so currently the only hand that beats you is 33.
Howver you need to narrow the field, chase away the draws and hopefully have someone with KQ, QT or lower 2 pair stick around.
If the table is generally passive bet at least the pot, preferbally a bit more, dont be disappointed if it is folded to you, you picked up 6BB, and thats fine.
If the table is very action oriented, check-raise
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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id pot it
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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If you get one or two callers and a not safe card comes on the turn (that completes a flush or OESD), what do you do first to act? I usually check and hope for a cheap river card/showdown if the flush hits since at these levels it's a pretty good chance that they're chasing a flush but wonder if that's too obviously weak of me? I guess I could mix things up a little and bet my own flush draws and check/raise myself when I hit; but then again, at my levels I'm not so sure a move like that would be noted by most players.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Don't bet your own flush draws. Without fold equity (which you don't have enough of at 10NL) you're just giving yourself bad pot odds.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Don't bet your own flush draws. Without fold equity (which you don't have enough of at 10NL) you're just giving yourself bad pot odds.
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Youd be surprised at how much better they pay you off when you hit after youve bet a flush draw.
Also, there are plenty of people who are tight enough to fold to your semibluff even at low stakes. You just have to make sure you know your player.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Youd be surprised at how much better they pay you off when you hit after youve bet a flush draw.
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If you are betting your own flush draws in anything but HU (or 3way when you are last to act) at 10/20/25NL, this is a leak.
I thought it could maybe work at 50NL but even there it is bad play.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Youd be surprised at how much better they pay you off when you hit after youve bet a flush draw.
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If you are betting your own flush draws in anything but HU (or 3way when you are last to act) at 10/20/25NL, this is a leak. |
I dont do it multiway as a bluff.
I will sometimes bet a draw multiway for value and to pot build if I think i will get plenty of callers. This is more important in PL than NL though.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Pot it. Lets say a FD guy calls against the odds, then the next guy with OESD is getting 3:1 which is fine for us because thats still less than he needs. If a draw card hits the turn then I check/call or bet out depending on how fishy the opponent is. The more likely I think he is to have a Q6 hand the more likely I am to bet out because I want to extract value from his TP hand.
If I FH on the turn I 2/3 pot it, same as I would with just 2 pair.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
I dont do it multiway as a bluff.
I will sometimes bet a draw multiway for value and to pot build if I think i will get plenty of callers. This is more important in PL than NL though.
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I think you know how/when to do it Pelion, but I really wouldn't post this in the beginner's section as general advice. In general it is not a good thing to do
- if someone has a monster, he will think "oh you got a hand, time to get my money" and raises you.. you just screwed yourself over.
- calling station calling you down with bottom or middle pair, you just screwed yourself over again by giving yourself bad pot odds.
- calling stations calling you down, you just bloated a pot where you had 1/5 to hit your draw. And if they don't have much, you don't have great implied odds either
- etc
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