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chardrian
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01-12-2006, 10:00 PM
Post subject: Fun test for beginners
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#1 (permalink)
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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What did player 7 do wrong in the following linked hand?
http://www.flopturnriver.com/hand_011404-bad_call.html
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sykotik489
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 99
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Not a beginner, but I don't see anything wrong. PF Raise-good. Bet flop-good. All-in to the reraise-didn't have to push there, but got the most value for his hand anyway. Wasn't going to make anymore than that.
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You should never wave at people you don't know, cause what if they don't have a hand. They'll think you're cocky. "Look what I got motherfucker, this thing is useful, I'ma go pick somethin up."
- Mitch Hedberg
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edudlive
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 100NL 6max
Posts: 623
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Should have re-raised for value. But considering stacks sizes...any raise commits Hero to the pot and he'll have to call that third heart if it falls. So just put it all in now and let opp call on a draw or fold me the decent sized pot.
Also, the flop bet was wrong. He bet $2 into a $5.25 pot. He needs to bet more to really discourage draws and give them really bad odds
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sykotik489
Not a beginner, but I don't see anything wrong. PF Raise-good. Bet flop-good. All-in to the reraise-didn't have to push there, but got the most value for his hand anyway. Wasn't going to make anymore than that.
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You are setting yourself up by saying you are not a beginner. As such a stead fast player you should be able to see what you have clearly missed my little grasshopper.
I give you   for your effort.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by edudlive
Should have re-raised for value. But considering stacks sizes...any raise commits Hero to the pot and he'll have to call that third heart if it falls. So just put it all in now and let opp call on a draw or fold me the decent sized pot.
Also, the flop bet was wrong. He bet $2 into a $5.25 pot. He needs to bet more to really discourage draws and give them really bad odds
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You see much, but miss much more. I give you a  
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I'd say he missed an opportunity to trap on the flop...why lead out? Opp could just as easily have folded after not catching either one of his overcards. Opp called the pre-flop raise so he's got some level of commitment to the hand, so let him lead out and then come over the top. Check/raise.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I'd say he missed an opportunity to trap on the flop...why lead out? Opp could just as easily have folded after not catching either one of his overcards. Opp called the pre-flop raise so he's got some level of commitment to the hand, so let him lead out and then come over the top. Check/raise.
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You may have made a straight, but u straight out missed this one.  
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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"but got the most value for his hand anyway" - nope
"considering stacks sizes" - consider them further my little chickadees.
Oh, and by the way - I'm totally just having fun with this post - it just dawned on me that I might be coming off as very Hellmuthian here and that wasn't my intent.
I'll publish my answer soon and then let you all rip on me.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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What I think he did wrong was he only had $20 at this table. I believe the max buy in is $50 am I right??
Therefore, he should have bought in for $50 and he would have made an extra $30 from this pot.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
What I think he did wrong was he only had $20 at this table. I believe the max buy in is $50 am I right??
Therefore, he should have bought in for $50 and he would have made an extra $30 from this pot.
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Bingo, he made the most off this hand with his stack size but he could have made more if he had more stack.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Although arguments can be made about how player 7 played his hand after the flop, that really isn't what I was looking for to give out  on this one.
Where player 7 screwed up was by buying in for less than the maximum allowed.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Right as I was making the above post - JL with his very first post comes up big.
:Ac: :As: for JL
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EricE
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
What I think he did wrong was he only had $20 at this table. I believe the max buy in is $50 am I right??
Therefore, he should have bought in for $50 and he would have made an extra $30 from this pot.
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Bingo, he made the most off this hand with his stack size but he could have made more if he had more stack. |
For all I remember, thos HH's are from old party poker times, when max buyin was only 50BB...
Nothing wrong with that hand, but I'd pot it on flop...
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"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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First Post here...but why is it a mistake to not buy-in at the max?
I prefer to buy-in with half the max and play tight. Reduces the implied odds someone gets on me and reduces the hard decisions if I half-way catch a flop against an aggressive Opp. There's only so much you can push a short stack around...
It does minimize my winnings initially, but it helps me start the session focused and when I do double or triple up my raises tend to be taken more seriously which opens the door for semi-bluffs. But I'm a newb so I could be wrong.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Preflop is fine, we can argue a 5bbs raise with one limper but thats splitting hairs. Flop is awful. $2 into a $5-6 pot is drawing odds for the flush, so $4 or $5 is better here.
Mini raise suggests three things. Draw/set two pair. So id reraise big rather than push as both protection and a sign that im playing for stacks and it all goes in on the turn so long as no scare cards hit.
Top two on that board is played hard and fast. If someone flopped a set i could go broke as its a draw heavy board.
Other notes. Not buying in for the max. No arguements, buy in for the max. Plus id add posting the bb. He has ugly position so why pay for 4 hands or so in ugly position than wait for the BB?
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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I think you might have made only slightly more if you had bought in for the max. Unless he's just a complete doofus he's not calling a $50 push with a gutshot straight draw and K hi...though I never buyin shortstacked either so I don't disagree that it's a mistake here either.
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaHorror
I think you might have made only slightly more if you had bought in for the max. Unless he's just a complete doofus he's not calling a $50 push with a gutshot straight draw and K hi...though I never buyin shortstacked either so I don't disagree that it's a mistake here either.
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If you started the hand with $50 you wouldn't have pushed the flop, unless it came to that from a re-raise pissing match. You would have potted his reraise and moved on to the turn where the money would most likely have gone in.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thee One
First Post here...but why is it a mistake to not buy-in at the max?
I prefer to buy-in with half the max and play tight. Reduces the implied odds someone gets on me and reduces the hard decisions if I half-way catch a flop against an aggressive Opp. There's only so much you can push a short stack around...
It does minimize my winnings initially, but it helps me start the session focused and when I do double or triple up my raises tend to be taken more seriously which opens the door for semi-bluffs. But I'm a newb so I could be wrong.
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There are legitemate points for buying in short but the biggest problem I see is illustrated by part of your post. ...it reduces the difficult decisions you have to make. That is hurting your development. Buy in full and learn fully. <shrug>
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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AND, hero might not have had time to buy back in if the last hand is what brought him down to that amount. In that case the biggest fault would be the weak flop raise that gave opp the good odds.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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I was actually expecting more arguments for buying in with less than the max...
When I was starting, I bought in for just over the minimum pretty frequently because I was (and often still am) an overly aggressive player who found it extremely difficult to lay down hands once I was involved in them.
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Gareth
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FlopTurnRivered
Posts: 246
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I reckon the other mistake he made was not being patient enough to wait till he was the BB before posting.
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"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle." - Confucius
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