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Frustrating session, should I have done anything different?

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andy609

02-01-2006, 04:44 AM Post subject: Frustrating session, should I have done anything different?

#1 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: To the left of the dead money

Posts: 108

These two hands came five hands apart.

PokerStars Game #3820210577: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) -
2006/01/31 - 18:59:55 (ET)
Table 'Tatry' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: niveknehc ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 2: K DaWg 685 ($1.15 in chips)
Seat 3: xplosive120 ($10.75 in chips)
Seat 4: andy609 ($8.85 in chips)
Seat 5: ddwm ($16.45 in chips)
Seat 6: mistygris ($9.70 in chips)
Seat 7: drdaveson ($8.50 in chips)
Seat 8: growinbcbud ($2.70 in chips)
Seat 9: DuckenWeave ($3.85 in chips)
ddwm: posts small blind $0.05
mistygris: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andy609 [6d 6h]
drdaveson: calls $0.10
growinbcbud: folds
DuckenWeave has timed out
DuckenWeave: folds
DuckenWeave is sitting out
niveknehc: folds
K DaWg 685: folds
xplosive120: folds
andy609: calls $0.10
ddwm: calls $0.05
mistygris: checks
*** FLOP *** [5d Td Ad]
ddwm: checks
mistygris: checks
drdaveson: checks
andy609: bets $0.50
ddwm: folds
mistygris: calls $0.50
drdaveson: folds
*** TURN *** [5d Td Ad] [6s]
mistygris: checks
andy609: bets $0.70
mistygris: calls $0.70
*** RIVER *** [5d Td Ad 6s] [Kd]
DuckenWeave has returned
mistygris: bets $1.20
andy609: folds
mistygris collected $2.70 from pot
mistygris: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2.80 | Rake $0.10
Board [5d Td Ad 6s Kd]
Seat 1: niveknehc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: K DaWg 685 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: xplosive120 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: andy609 (button) folded on the River
Seat 5: ddwm (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: mistygris (big blind) collected ($2.70)
Seat 7: drdaveson folded on the Flop
Seat 8: growinbcbud folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: DuckenWeave folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #3820290562: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) -
2006/01/31 - 19:07:07 (ET)
Table 'Tatry' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: niveknehc ($9.55 in chips)
Seat 2: K DaWg 685 ($2.25 in chips)
Seat 3: xplosive120 ($12.15 in chips)
Seat 4: andy609 ($7.55 in chips)
Seat 5: ddwm ($15.35 in chips)
Seat 6: mistygris ($10.55 in chips)
Seat 7: drdaveson ($8.25 in chips)
Seat 8: growinbcbud ($2.50 in chips)
Seat 9: DuckenWeave ($3.25 in chips)
niveknehc: posts small blind $0.05
K DaWg 685: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to andy609 [Qs Qh]
xplosive120: folds
andy609: raises $0.30 to $0.40
ddwm: folds
mistygris: folds
drdaveson: calls $0.40
growinbcbud: calls $0.40
DuckenWeave: folds
niveknehc: folds
K DaWg 685: raises $0.60 to $1
andy609: raises $1.25 to $2.25
drdaveson: folds
growinbcbud: folds
K DaWg 685: calls $1.25 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [9h 7c 4s]
*** TURN *** [9h 7c 4s] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [9h 7c 4s 8h] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
K DaWg 685: shows [Kh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Fours)
andy609: mucks hand
K DaWg 685 collected $5.10 from pot
andy609 leaves the table
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.35 | Rake $0.25
Board [9h 7c 4s 8h 4d]
Seat 1: niveknehc (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: K DaWg 685 (big blind) showed [Kh Ks] and won ($5.10) with two
pair, Kings and Fours
Seat 3: xplosive120 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: andy609 mucked [Qs Qh]
Seat 5: ddwm folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mistygris folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: drdaveson folded before Flop
Seat 8: growinbcbud folded before Flop
Seat 9: DuckenWeave (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I guess I shouldn't be upset about the first one since he called 70 cents on the turn, which was 31% of the pot and his odds of getting the flush were 19%; I'll profit off these calls in the long-run. It's really irritating when people make these calls on a flush draw and then hit it; this isn't the only time this happened to me in the past couple days.

Looking at the second one, it's easy to say in hindsight I should have folded to his preflop raise, but would that really have been the right move? Anyway, I decided to call it a session immediately after the QQ hand.

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spoonitnow

02-01-2006, 05:40 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

On the first hand, your flop bet kind of invites disaster. Yes, you're giving them incorrect pot odds to call a flush draw for 9 outs (they don't know you're holding a diamond, not that it matters), but between the implied odds and the fact that it's 10NL, they're going to pretty much call you down on this one (don't worry about it being 10NL too much, if indeed he's on the draw, you still make money on this play in the long run if you continue to give him the incorrect odds, just don't expect him to fold based only on the odds). When you made your set on the turn, and you assume the guy is on the flush draw, betting half the pot does give the guy the incorrect odds to call just based on the pot odds alone, but he's probably got implied odds that cover the difference. Depending on the player, I might be tempted to check here, because if you make your boat or quads on the river, there's lots of ways he can pay you off (he already has the flush, your check on the turn "indicates" weakness which provokes a bluff, etc).

In the second hand, it's a close call, but I think there's a few things that make it not so bad. First, there's a lot of dead money in the pot. Besides the small blind, drdaveson and growinbcbud put in 40 cents each, which ends up being like 15% of the total pot. The only hands you're behind to are AA and KK, and every other hand you're a favorite. Note if you're up against AK, which is an apparent coinflip, you still have an edge over the long run because 15% of the pot is dead money, and the rake is only 5%. Because it's 10NL (and the fact that the villian is fairly short-stacked to begin with), I think pushing with QQ here is fine. However, you didn't push, you just bet enough to put KDawg all in. The problem with this is that if drdaveson calls and sees the flop, you're giving him a chance to draw out on you.

It's like 2 in the morning and I'm really tired, so I'm not sure if all of this makes sense, is in English, or is actually anywhere close to being accurate, but it makes sense at the time.

midas06

02-01-2006, 05:52 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Spoon, you don't want to be checking your set on a 3 to a flush board.

spoonitnow

02-01-2006, 05:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

Spoon, you don't want to be checking your set on a 3 to a flush board.

Yeah, that falls under the it's 2 am thing

I'm such a <

-<<

Gareth

02-01-2006, 06:12 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: FlopTurnRivered

Posts: 246

Hand 1
you limped in preflop,
it gets checked around to you on the flop,
just check here take your free card,
you might hit your set if you do bet the pot
if you don't hit your set fold to any bet check if it is checked to you

Hand 2

opponent has a short stack - no way should you fold here with QQ - I would have raised him all in here as well - If he has one of the only two hands that beat me here - ah well - reload.

"To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle." - Confucius

Pelion

02-03-2006, 02:46 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

hand 1. Probably dont bet that flop. anyone plays an A. Do bet that turn. Anyone calls with an A.

edit: If you are in position and it is checked to you then by all means take a stab. The problem is here is that there is no reason to think he doesnt have any A (since it is 10NL) and you are building a pot out of position with a pretty poor hand.

hand 2: fine. He has $2 at a $10 table. Think about it this way. If he had $10 how much would you have put in before you decided you were behind? Probably more than $2. Push and expect all sorts of wacky hands (AJo etc) to call you for only $2. If he does turn out to have a better hand then take some sucking out lessons from Fnord and hit a set on the flop

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

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Frustrating session, should I have done anything different?

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