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RoyalProdigy
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01-14-2009, 07:01 AM
Post subject: Freeroll/ Micro Stake Strategy
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 178
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Alright here it goes. Your playing a freeroll or say a 1-2c nl game with a good starting stack. Your in the 3 seats away from the button. (10 seats) UTG raises 3x and EVERYONE calls and it comes to you. You look down at a 2-4s. What do you do? For some its a instant fold. 5 people in with 3x and if you combine the sb and the bb's money your getting almost 6 to 1 if you call. I would call here. 6 to 1 on money is a very good thing!!! If i don't strike gold on the flop i'm throwing it away.
Is this a bad play? Should i just throw it away? The 6 to 1 on my money is just so nice!!!! I mean i know i'm gonna have to like flop a straight or boat. 3 of a kind is ok but if its like 9-4-4 pocket nines could be out there. so i know i'm really looking for a beautiful flop or else i'm sketchy. Floping a flush is even sketchy.
So I'm just asking what would you do take the 6 to 1 on your money or just throw it away 
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Just chuck it in the muck dude. No sense in even playing that garbage. Maybe on the Button or in the CO, but its a lil sketchy in the HJ. Sure you're getting 6 to 1 PF, but whos to say someone doesn't reraise? Anyways just my 2 cents.
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RoyalProdigy
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 178
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I don't normally play a 2-4s period but maybe on the button with limpers or if a situation like this happens. This is why. i know i'm not gonna hit a monster ofton but when i'm getting 6 to one on my money for 6c the pot is going to be lik 35-40c so if the flop is say 2-2-4 )which does not happen ofton) i'm gonna take a really nice pot with a garbage hand expecially if someone has a small over pair. If someone reraises preflop i lose 6c, its not a big loss, and i am talking absolutly no chasing with this hand, no moves, nothing fancy. Flop the nuts or lose 6c.
I do see your point and i appreciate your 2 cents
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Stack That Arab Money!!!
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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2 cents is a LOT OF MONIES  lol
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Mr Bigcity
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Auburn
Posts: 122
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i think it depends on how aggressive the rest of the table raises preflop.. if everyone is passive just limp with the rest and hope to hit it big and get a huge payoff
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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I'm intrigued why you think 6:1 is good on a garbage hand.Just because a freeroll has cost you nothing to enter its stupid to chuck chips away needlessly.You end up bleeding your stack away , taking worse hands up against better ones and losing more chips in the process.play them tight and be prepared to get all your chips in the middle by the river with your very best hands and accumulate chips that way.
When i started on freerolls I was very fishy , thinking its only a few chips early on and ending up out of the money . Now its only the best hands that I play when i go back to a freeroll as relaxation and preferably in position and i'm tighter than a ducks backside. But I regularly make the money when i play like that. All the time you see the all in every hand idiots doubling up with lucky two pairs etc, but they rarely make it past the first break as the better players have noticed their play and only take the premium hands against them which usually then double up.
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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I toss a hand like that. The pot odds are tempting but you could be putting money into pots like that for hours with little to show.
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grannyluck
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ox
Posts: 4
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Although 2-4s are lucky numbers (Jeff Gordon), toss the hand!
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JR9477
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 426
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I fold little suited connectors.
Low connectors (A-5) actually have a lower chance to hit a straight. Much of the time were drawing to a inside straight and there's going to be an ace on the board, which is going to cause heavy betting and force us out of the pot.
A flush we make will not be exceptionally strong. When we hit the flush at 2nl, and it's massive multiway, we have to bet hard to make sure to give bad odds to TP+FD hands, we're likely to get called by multiple players which will give good odds to him.
Not saying flush isn't a good hand, even weak, just you gotta be careful. If a 4th flush cards hits the board, there's a good chance your hand it is beat.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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what are the odds to hit 2pair+? is it better or worse than the odds the table is giving? how much can you expect to get should you hit 2pair+? how likely is it that the remaining players behind you will not raise?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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daitie
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
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I personally would make a call 75% of the time there. u pretty much know where u stand u can afford it and may hit a number of possible sneaky hands to get paid even more. If it doesnt come then alter your play as you should be doing in poker, we are gambling
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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using that logic - are there any hands you won't play?
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atom2k8
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 30
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i hate this kinda stuff in freerolls jus chuck em in and play the game like u wud if it was money otherwise it becomes a crap game and you learn bad habits
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atom2k8
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 30
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keith_MM
using that logic - are there any hands you won't play?
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if you lose your just wasting chips and u will miss those chips if you get a good hand cus the more chips you have the more you cud make
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atom2k8
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 30
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sorry meant to quote daitie not Keith_MM
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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And this is why you guys will be playing freerolls the rest of your lives
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JR9477
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 426
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I once played in a tournament with a guy who commented. "Why do you fold so much? You never know what the flop could bring!"
He re-bought twice and finished last. I placed second.
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(Josh)
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kfaess
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 556
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Quote:
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And this is why you guys will be playing freerolls the rest of your lives
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lol.
I'm pretty sure you need way better than 6 to 1 to call with a hand like 24s. What are you trying to hit on the flop? The odds of flopping a strait or flush are def more than 6 to 1.
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RoyalProdigy
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 178
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Well first of all i want to thank everyone for there feedback. First of all i want to clarify 2-4s is not a hand i play all the time, i hardly play it all. I know 2-4 is garbage but 6-1 isnt to bad and if you do say flop a straight or a boat its going to be a sneaky. a 6c investment is nothing to loose. i could loose it 6 times in a row but when i hit i'm probably going to get at least a 1-2 dollar pot with if 6 people are in the hand and i'm getting odds like that. I'm not saying play 2-4s everytime you get it, obviosly you don't play it shortstacked, i wouldnt play it from EP under any circumstances and would only play it if i had 5-1 or more. The implied odds are just sick if you flop a crazy hand. I see your points and i thank you for your feedback. I will take everything you said under consideration. I'm going to look into this more (the mathmatics of it all) to see if its indeed a justifyable call. Thank you again.
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Stack That Arab Money!!!
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RoyalProdigy
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 178
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Two pair (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 49/1
ODDS: 48 to 1. CHANCES: 1 in 49. PERCENT: 2.02%.
Trips (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 73/1
1.35%
flopping a straight (including the slight chance of a straight flush in some cases) 0.980%
Flopping a flush (including the slight chance of a straight flush in some cases) 0.842%
A full house (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1087/1
.09%
Quads (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards
.01%
So i only have a 5.29% chance of hitting a good hand to a monster hand.
So i would have to play the hand around 20 times before i won. So 20 x .06 is 1.20c. So i would have to win more than 1.20c every 20 times i play this hand for it to be profitable.
If i limp with it then i have to make 40c every 20 hands with this hand just to break even.
Implied Odds: Bets that you can reasonably expect to collect in addition to the bets already in the pot if you hit your hand.
So implied odds would def come into play if you consider playing this hand. With all my research i can honestly say i won't being 2-4s in this situation. I'm glad i did this. Thanks guys and ladies!!!!
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Stack That Arab Money!!!
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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even if you flop the flush straight or full house theres no guarauntee you are going to win the hand either.
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kfaess
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 556
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Quote:
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even if you flop the flush straight or full house theres no guarauntee you are going to win the hand either.
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and no guatantee you will get paid
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Joblah123
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9
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2 cents isnt alot of moneey aha.
but if thats what you want go for it.
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NZNZGZ
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
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Considering the situation (good stack, the raise, the number of callers and specially your cards) I would fold. You are not in a hurry or stressed by the blinds an sonner or later you will have new opportunities.
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cmoist31
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 12
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im calling 2c all day
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cmoist31
im calling 2c all day
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have you read any of the comments in this thread? Have another read through of the comments saying fold, think about them , read them through again think about them again .
if you still want to call , think about what Jyms said here
Quote:
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And this is why you guys will be playing freerolls the rest of your lives
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then repeat this post from the start.
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tunah
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 44
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Apart from anything else, you don't get paid off. I was pleasantly surprised when my 42o BB special flopped a full house (442) today, but the flop checked around and a 1/2 pot bet on the turn got no takers.
To get paid you have to hit big hands when other people hit small hands.
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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Great thread.
I think implied odds are much more important in this case than pots odds. How likely are you to get paid big if you hit big? This is read-dependant.
Pot odds must be seen in relation to your equity and with 6 players your equity is very low. I do not think calling in the hopes of hitting big is a good strategy here.
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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The problem with the implied odds of this situation is that there will never be enough money to make up for the amount you call. In order to get out of the micro stakes you have to stop thinking in the " it's only $0.02 I'll call" mentality. This is a BB. (big blind) We are aiming to have a winrate of 5BB/100, 10BB/100 or even 20BB/100 and these will be harder to earn if your spending "only $0.02" every couple orbits.
Most micro grinders struggle to make a 10BB/100 hands winrate and this is one of the reasons why. When breaking down a 10BB+/100 winrate you would need to earn a measly 1BB per orbit in a FR table. Unfortunately every orbit costs you 1.5BB already in blinds. If you now call with 42o or any other likely hand from the button or blinds once an orbit (and you know you do) you have now cost yourself 2.5BB per orbit. You now need to make 3.5BB per orbit to achieve your winrate. In 11 orbits playing like this, you have now lost 38.5BB's without seeing a flop. That is more than 1/3 of a stack. You will be looking at your cashier or PT graph(HM too) and think your losing and start to call even more trying to catch up. Save your money or chips in tourneys, get stronger starting hands, bet aggressively against opponents that will call. Learn to fold a lot and just get your money in when your hand is stronger than your opponents.
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