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sejje
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03-14-2005, 03:52 AM
Post subject: Folding KK
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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I probably lose more money KK v AA than any other hand in Hold 'Em.
Is it something you deal with, or do you lay down kings when you think someone probably has aces?
A hand earlier I raised to $3, another guy reraised to $20 ($50NL Party). Is that a laydown? I pushed (and lost).
I think I get this matchup at least once a day, and lose at least a buy-in to it. I'm tired of throwing money down this particular hole.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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If you get that once a day, I'm sorry, but it just kinda sucks to be you. I don't mean to insult you or anything  , but yeah. That just sucks.
Push everytime preflop with Kings is my opinion. Someone will only have aces I think 5% of the time that you're holding kings and even then, you still have a 20% chance to hit one of your kings and win.
Sounds like you're just having a bad run of luck with them.
That being said, I lose KK to things all the time that are NOT AA. If I'd folded every KK I'd ever gotten, I'd be about $500 richer according to pokertracker. 
But I digress, preflop is definitely the time to be pushing with kings. Good luck in your future endeavors, just try not to use it against me on the table. 
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a500lbgorilla
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03-14-2005, 04:06 AM
Post subject: Re: Folding KK
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#3 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
I probably lose more money KK v AA than any other hand in Hold 'Em.
Is it something you deal with, or do you lay down kings when you think someone probably has aces?
A hand earlier I raised to $3, another guy reraised to $20 ($50NL Party). Is that a laydown? I pushed (and lost).
I think I get this matchup at least once a day, and lose at least a buy-in to it. I'm tired of throwing money down this particular hole.
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Unless you play all day, getting this match up one a day sucks to the max.
Pushing with KK is a g00t move.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i pushed kk at aa the other day. actually another person was in, shortstacked, and pushed with 33. first time its ever happened to me. i knew by the way he raised, i reraised him, then he reraised me, that he had it. something about the way he min-reraised me i just got the vibe of strength. but, as of recently i am a firm believer that reading hands is a lot more like reading palms then anyone would like to admit, so i pushed.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Maybe not once a day, but definitely at least once every other day.
And I don't play all day, but I play a lot. 4-6 hours at least.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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4-6 hours a day and having KK beat your AA once every other day.
That would put it happening once about every 900-1000 hands? (assuming you multitable 2 or 3 at a time)
You will hit KK 1/200 hands (about). So you should get it about 5 times.
Out of those 5 times, someone should have AA about 5% of the time.
So that .005 * .05 = .00025 or .025% that your KK should run into an AA in two days.
So you should see your KK run into AA once in every 20 times you have KK and you should get KK about 5 times every other day.
OK...your luck has to improve sometime, right? 'Cause from what I see, it just kinda sucks to be you when you have KK.
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Eric
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: on my laptop
Posts: 1,782
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I can't get away from KK pre-flop, it is just one of those things. After the flop is a different story though, I can fold the cowboys when an Ace is on board.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Yeah, postflop is easy with the ace up. Ace rag beats KK all day long.
The other hand I hate is Ace rag hitting their kicker and beating your AK.
Then again, more often than not they just give you their money.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Retribution! Cowboys held up vs QQ, even when he hit a set.
Whew.
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giantdogs92
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 52
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i have lost so many hands wen i had KK nd some loose fish calls with 5 8... i actually lost an all in when i had KK and one guy had AA and another guy called with 5 8... i hit my set but the 5 8 rivered a straight....so at least be happy your losing to good hands
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"If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apoligize" -Muhammed Ali
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Fortune 500
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bluffalupagus
Posts: 1,261
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I have only once laid down Kings, and it was tonight. I was sitting UTG with Kings, and had a Tight Passive in the BB. I raised to 5xBB and it folded around... got Reraised all in by a loose player (No worries here) then the BB sprang to life and reraised him again. I had a big chip lead, but this was enough to hurt... and I just knew the tight passive had AA. So I folded.
Turned out the loose player had JJ, and sucked out on Aces, but my King never hit, so it was a g00t laydown.
But that's all read dependent. I hadn't seen her raise anything but ultra strong hands, and I had a pretty tight table image, so I didn't think she'd make that move on me with AK or Queens... so I got out of the way.
But unless you have a killer read... then no... this is very hard to get away from preflop. Just grit your teeth and bear it.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I fold KK preflop. I really dont like it. 
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
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BeeJall
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 81
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I've only folded KK once in my life preflop cause I was almost sure this guy had AA. It was late in a SnG and the tight guy reraised me for all my chips.. but I folded and he ended up having AK so i was mad, but then I felt a lot better when an ace came on the turn. 
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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When I was in Las Vegas, I was playing a $2/$5 no limit game at the Bellagio. I was playing with a pretty significant portion of my bankroll so naturally I was playing more cautiously than usual. In one hand, the guy two seats to my right made a standard opening raise, then the guy to my right reraised to $100. I looked down at K-K and was so concerned that the guy who reraised had A-A (I figured the most likely hands were Q-Q and A-A, A-A being the most likely), that I almost folded preflop. Finally I decided to move all-in, and was actually called by two players, including a player who was still to act after me, and the player who reraised. The first player to call had 8-7 offsuit, and the player to my right had 5-5. I flopped a set, turned a full house and I won a gigantic pot.
Anyways, I don't think it's wise to fold K-K preflop unless you have strong reason to believe that one of your opponents has aces. Even in the rare circumstance that he or she does have aces, you'll still win around 20% of the time.
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Molinero
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In The General Vicinity of Dallas
Posts: 230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I fold KK preflop. I really dont like it. |
I have many friends who hate AA and AK and KK because they "always" lose with it. I'm sure you have your reasons, Jeff, and I'm sure they're reasonable reasons, but I always cringe when people say stuff like that about some of the best starting hands in the game.
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"We thought you was a toad!"
-- O Brother Where Art Thou?
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Legendash
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Full House
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crypto 6max 100NL
Posts: 611
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I think Jeff was joking, he's played poker for a couple of days now, maybe getting the hang of it...
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"[This theory] is only useful for helping to calculate your luck odds. If you have a good read that you have a numerical advantage against your opponent, that your hand is "luckier"..."
Copyright, Youngdro 2007.
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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Out of the last 6 times ive had aces im at a net loss of around 110 bucks. lost em all in to short stacks 3 times which accounted for most of it. 2 I got little play on and the 3rd I didnt get any. Oddly enough the one time I had KK mixed into the bunch I got it all preflop and what does he turn over. AA and I hit a K on the turn to take his stack. I hope this curse of the aces ends soon.
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Molinero
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In The General Vicinity of Dallas
Posts: 230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Legendash
I think Jeff was joking, he's played poker for a couple of days now, maybe getting the hang of it...
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I feel silly...hehe...
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"We thought you was a toad!"
-- O Brother Where Art Thou?
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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try not to put your entire stack at risk over AA and KK, once you've seen the flop that is
if you hit a set though, you're usually in very good shape.
If it's a preflop raise war, don't be afraid to push with AA / KK
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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For a weekend a little bit ago, it just seemed that kings couldn't win. Not MY kings, not other people's kings. NOBODY's kings. :P
I seriously considered droppiong them preflop, but I was like NOOOOOO....I CAN'T.
ANyways, Kings have been better for me as of late.
Although, AA and KK for me haven't been dragging decent pots lately. More like the blinds...or $10 instead. oh well...
2 7 off on the other hand won me a $50 pot the other night. I love the universe giving me X to play with. :P Right after we showed it down, half the table was in an uproar of "WTF?!?!"
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