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Folding AA and KK

  
 
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KryptoZ
Old 06-08-2004, 10:28 PM     Post subject: Folding AA and KK #1 (permalink)  
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Hey all, I've been visiting this site for the past few days while I try to make some money on online casinos. A hand I played last night seems like a good hand to learn from. I am KryptoZ and rajoa later told me he folded pocket aces. He bet into me, but still had the smarts to fold, losing $14. The other guy was not so lucky:


***** Hand History for Game 658023345 *****
KryptoZ: probably wouldn't have called 10 with it i guess
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Mon Jun 07 22:09:48 EDT 2004
Table Pink panther (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: KryptoZ ( $41.20)
Seat 2: PUSKILLA ( $24.85)
Seat 3: moman31 ( $24.50)
Seat 4: pm00n ( $56.85)
Seat 5: HogVA ( $8.35)
Seat 6: JMoneyAA ( $28.15)
Seat 7: charlesmm ( $27.45)
Seat 8: rajoa ( $46.10)
Seat 9: Deuce_Ace ( $18.55)
Seat 10: sheepdog1203 ( $25)
rajoa posts small blind (0.25)
Deuce_Ace posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to KryptoZ [ Qd, Qh ]
Deuce_Ace: i was mad about the hearts thought i was screwed
sheepdog1203 calls (0.50)
KryptoZ raises (1.50) to 1.50
rajoa: yeah
moman31 folds.
pm00n folds.
HogVA folds.
JMoneyAA folds.
charlesmm folds.
rajoa raises (3.75) to 4
Deuce_Ace folds.
sheepdog1203 calls (3.50)
KryptoZ calls (2.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qc, 7h, Jh ]
rajoa bets (10)
sheepdog1203 calls (10)
KryptoZ raises (37.20) to 37.20
KryptoZ is all-In.
rajoa: cerap
rajoa folds.
sheepdog1203 calls (11)
sheepdog1203 is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2h ]
Creating Main Pot with $61.50 with sheepdog1203
Creating Side Pot 1 with $16.20 with KryptoZ
** Summary **
Main Pot: $61.50 | Side Pot 1: $16.20 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Qc 7h Jh 8c 2h ]
KryptoZ balance $77.70, bet $41.20, collected $77.70, net +$36.50 [ Qd Qh ] [ three of a kind, queens -- Qd,Qh,Qc,Jh,8c ]
PUSKILLA balance $24.85, sits out
moman31 balance $24.50, didn't bet (folded)
pm00n balance $56.85, didn't bet (folded)
HogVA balance $8.35, didn't bet (folded)
JMoneyAA balance $28.15, didn't bet (folded)
charlesmm balance $27.45, didn't bet (folded)
rajoa balance $32.10, lost $14 [ Ad As ] [ a pair of aces -- Ad,As,Qc,Jh,8c ]
Deuce_Ace balance $18.05, lost $0.50 (folded)
sheepdog1203 balance $0, lost $25 [ Kc Kh ] [ a pair of kings -- Kc,Kh,Qc,Jh,8c ]
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Fnord
Old 06-08-2004, 10:47 PM #2 (permalink)  
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If he folded Aces, than it was an amazing fold. A more callable flop raise or even a flat call might have gotten more money, as your opponents probably are drawing to runners or 2 outs. Really depends on their betting/calling behavior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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KryptoZ
Old 06-09-2004, 01:32 AM #3 (permalink)  
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True, but it was a loose table and with the re-raise pre-flop and $10 bet after, I figured he was ready to bet everything.
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Fnord
Old 06-09-2004, 01:36 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Bet everything or call everthing?

It's my observation that the two are somewhat independent. Then again I'm just the resident scrub that posts way too damn much...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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KryptoZ
Old 06-09-2004, 03:21 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Considering he was willing to do neither, he escaped pretty well losing only $14. The other person was willing to call all-in though. With trips and the main better out, I was pretty confident.
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Toasty
Old 06-09-2004, 07:27 AM #6 (permalink)  
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if he did fold AA, that would have been an extremely bad fold, you could have easily held KK or AQ / AQ
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
 
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Humphrind
Old 06-14-2004, 09:31 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I got into a home game. where I was on a streak. $2 max bet, I had the chip lead with about $50 in chips. I was delt KK and me and another got into a raising war. There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in. I had a scared feeling I knew what he had. An A came down on the flop and I easily called, but didn't re-raise. An A came down on the turn and I was confident that he could have quad Aces. Odds are too slim, so I raised once again, but he kept re-raising. I called on the river and he flipped over his quad aces.

I had a sneaky feeling at what he had, but I couldn't bring myself to fold my Ks.

I'd like to think I have learned a lot since then, but this could be an example of what not to do as well.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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fishstick
Old 06-14-2004, 10:03 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.
translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!
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Fnord
Old 06-14-2004, 10:11 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.
translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!
No limit, yes. Limit, check+calling this down might not be a horrible idea depending on how much you pumped the pot. You certainly must hit the breaks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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fishstick
Old 06-14-2004, 10:29 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.
translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!
No limit, yes. Limit, check+calling this down might not be a horrible idea depending on how much you pumped the pot. You certainly must hit the breaks.
opps - my bad. definitely would play differently in limit.
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AllinLife
Old 06-15-2004, 03:52 AM #11 (permalink)  
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too bad he gave off with a tell. ha.. reminds me of KGB in rounders when he gets angry

gj kryptoz!
(btw i registered only now to say this)
"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen
 
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Humphrind
Old 06-16-2004, 12:42 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrind
There was no cap so we went back and forth until he asked me if I wanted to go all in.
translation: "i've got the best possible starting hand, and would like to get as much money in the pot as possible."

i understand not backing down preflop, but with the flopped ace your dead if he's even holding A2. if he's betting hard, you have to fold. and then the turn ace - yikes!

with his preflop behavior, i'd put him on AA, KK (unlikely as you had two of them), possibly AK, maybe AQ - point is, with any of these hands, you're drawing dead.

you have to be willing to muck KK if you put someone on a pair of aces, let alone 4 of them!
OK, I have to clarify something. I said it wrong earlier. After the turn brought a second A, I was confident that he COULDN'T have quad Aces. The chances are too slim. I typed in 'could' because I'm an idiot who doesn't proof-read.

As far as the tell, that's what made the hand so much easier to play.

This is a pretty tight player, so I wasn't thinking for a second that he has Ax, it had to be a pocket pair and it had to be Q or higher. I thought it might be Aces, until 2 of them came down, I was mostly check/calling the odds. (I had already put about $15 in the pot before the flop and I wanted to see it to the end)
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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