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Fold or Call?

  
 
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FlopTurnThenRivered
Old 07-14-2006, 09:08 AM     Post subject: Fold or Call? #1 (permalink)  

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FlopTurnThenRivered
Hands like these kill me, it's my biggest -EV for sure. Would you call, or fold?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($6.10)
Button ($12.80)
SB ($9.40)
BB ($9.40)
UTG ($7.05)
Hero ($12.60)
MP1 ($2.05)
MP2 ($9)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, J.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, 3 folds, Button calls $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.25) T, K, 6 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.8, Button calls $0.80, BB folds.

Turn: ($2.85) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3.85
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FlopTurnThenRivered
Old 07-14-2006, 09:10 AM #2 (permalink)  

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FlopTurnThenRivered
(or raise instead of check??)
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jameseyb
Old 07-14-2006, 12:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I'm not sure I would even be in that hand pre-flop, not from EP and I would not be raising it...

You need either an ace or a 9 from the river to make a straight. If you get a 9, you are beaten buy anyone with an ace in their hand. He called you from the button pre-flop and called you all the way down the line until you checked on the turn.

How likely is it that he called you pre-flop with AJ? Not a re-raising hand pre-flop if someone has already raised, but you could call a 4xBB raise with it if you were in LP. The flop gave him four outs for a nut straight, with two cards left to come, that 17% to hit his hand, so the odds you gave him were not that good, but he could have stuck around.

He could also have been holding KQ and decided to play when he made 2 pair...

I don't know, what happened?

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Oscar
Old 07-14-2006, 01:34 PM #4 (permalink)  

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OK, I'm getting involved here, but I am a newbie player so please take my advice with a pinch of salt.

Anyway, I'd probably bet out on the turn, thinking that checking here just hands initiative to your opponent.

As it happened, you checked and he bet, so I would raise here. If he's bluffing or drawing then you have put him in a difficult position. He might put you on a made straight because of your check-raise. However, if he calls or re-rasies then you have to think he's got something and it makes your decision-making easier.

As I said, this "advice" might be doo-doo, but hey, that's just me.

Cheers.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-14-2006, 01:39 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Why fold when you turn an OESD and still have top pair?

Why stop betting!?

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BowlinPinTim
Old 07-14-2006, 02:41 PM #6 (permalink)  
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You probably should have bet the turn. You had top pair and an OESD, and by checking you just showed weakness and gave him a reason to try and take the pot right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlopTurnThenRivered
(or raise instead of check??)
Also, I don't know if you've been told this before but when you're the first to voluntarily put money into the pot on a given street, it's called a bet not a raise.
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BowlinPinTim
Old 07-14-2006, 02:43 PM #7 (permalink)  
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O and call
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martindcx1e
Old 07-14-2006, 04:09 PM #8 (permalink)  
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when in early position at a full ring table you should be less likely to raise pre-flop than in late position. when you raise in EP you'll often find yourself either sandwiched between the blinds and someone else or you'll be completely OOP (out of position) for the rest of the hand - this is NOT good. KJ is at the lower end of the spectrum of quality starting hands. raising with this hand in EP will also probably lead to chip spewing with badly-timed c-bets. ANYWAYS....good bet on the flop. on the turn you've improved your hand. you still have top pair and have picked up an OESD. there's NO reason to check/fold now! you need to keep betting. even after you checked villain bet about 1/3 of the pot. that's a dream for you if you are behind right now. you CAN'T keep folding here or you're losing $$$.

EDIT: and yes please say "bet" instead of "raise" if it's the 1st act of aggression or i'll be forced to kill you
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Miffed22001
Old 07-14-2006, 04:25 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 lets go for a check raise?
at least call
dont raise in ep with dominated hands unless the table is like a rock (in which case move)
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 07-14-2006, 08:58 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Fold preflop.... you'll get a lot of these smart ass (and ironically the simplest way to put it) responses here.
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Rockymv
Old 07-14-2006, 09:36 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Fold PF. Bet turn. As played, you're getting 3.85:1 odds and you hold TP and an OESD. Call or check/raise.
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