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fold after the flop? - $2nl full ring

  
 
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flintyglint
Old 04-13-2009, 11:00 AM     Post subject: fold after the flop? - $2nl full ring #1 (permalink)  
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sunk a many a bb into this hand. should i have folded at the flop? i figured i had eight outs and was worth going for it. any other feedback is appreciated.



iPoker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (10 handed) - iPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2.47)
BB ($4.98)
UTG ($3.14)
UTG+1 ($0.76)
UTG+2 ($2.24)
MP1 ($3.99)
MP2 ($1.36)
Hero (MP3) ($1.98)
CO ($0.26)
Button ($0.61)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, J
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, MP1 bets $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.18, CO raises to $0.26 (All-In), 2 folds, BB raises to $1.09, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.91

Flop: ($2.57) 10, 8, Q (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets $1.28, Hero calls $0.89 (All-In)

Turn: ($4.35) 7 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.35) 5 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.35 | Rake: $0.21
NNNNOOObody expects the Spanish InquisishuuuNNNNN!!!
 
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AdamThePirate
Old 04-13-2009, 11:08 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I would fold before the flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
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littleogre
Old 04-13-2009, 11:20 AM #3 (permalink)  

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littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 well you have 8 outs to the str8. On top of that you have the bd flush draw. Your king is also a good out part of the time. So if it is a bad call it isn't that bad.
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JKDS
Old 04-13-2009, 12:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 with 32% equity here your never folding the flop. Preflop is lol bad though baring reads that the co and bb 4b and 5b super light
Quote:
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But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
 
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Jason
Old 04-13-2009, 01:08 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 I was reading this hand and my first thought was, "Hrm, I'm not sure if I'd call a 5x raise with KJs" and then you re-raised it and then called a HUGE 58.5x 4bet?! The flop call is fine as you have 8 outs plus a backdoor flush is worth another out. However, I think it's a mistake to let the pot bloat up with such a marginal hand unless you have a good read that both your opponents are playing trash here most of the time. This hand went wrong pre-flop - fold or maybe just call the FIRST raise with KJs. Definitely fold a 4th bet. The only hand you should be playing a 58.5x 4bet is AA or maybe KK and that's worth a shove at that point.
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Robb
Old 04-13-2009, 01:26 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamThePirate
I would fold twice before the flop, once after first raise and again after the BB jams it.
FYP
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tyrn
Old 04-13-2009, 02:12 PM #7 (permalink)  
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KJs is such a marginal hand when you're playing FR. If you're playing on a table when you can limp it, it might be worth limping, or completing SB. Otherwise when people raise, or 3 bet like in this case, they're representing AJ+ KQ+ TT+ all of which except the lowest pp's have you dominated. Better off folding and avoiding these situations.

As for the flop, you're getting about 20% pot odds with open ended straight and backdoor flush, as well an over card which may or may not be tainted. It's a way better call here than preflop.
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Stacks
Old 04-13-2009, 02:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Sorry OP, but this hand is terrible.

Folding the flop would be terrible. Min3betting the initial raise is terrible. Calling villains 5bet is terrible.

You should likely fold to MP1's initial open, but calling isn't terrible. 3betting isn't terrible either, but your doing it for a purpose, and the purpose would be because villain folds often enough to make 3betting KJs as a bluff (because you have blockers) is profitable. But your 3bet size is terrible. Do yourself a favor and never just hit the raise button again without at least first moving the slider some (usually raise 3-4x what villain bets).

As for calling villains very large 5bet, what was possibly your thought process here? You couldn't have thought you were ahead. Also an unpaired holding is going to miss the flop a good percentage of the time (like 2/3 of the time). What is your plan when you miss the flop and have so little behind that your almost certain to have villain jamming the flop?

On the flop, this is one of the best flops you could get. You have at least 8 outs, which leaves you with around 32% equity or so. Given the pot size and the amount you have left behind, you only need 20% equity to call. 32% equity > 20% equity, so a call is correct.

So no... You shouldn't fold after the flop. But man you need to get your preflop game under control, and do some studying on why your doing what your doing.
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RoyalProdigy
Old 04-13-2009, 10:39 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Stacks is right on the money with this hand. What do you possably thin hes raising with here? He shoves like 50bb in the middle and your calling with K-Js???!!! I mean do you really think your K-Js beats his hand? or are you just praying you out flop him with a miracle??? Hes repping Aces or Kings and at worst Queens. You need to evaluate your pre-flop play. Read up in the strategy section.
Stack That Arab Money!!!
 
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