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davekp2003

04-23-2006, 11:00 AM Post subject: Flush Question

#1 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 81

I'm playing at 5 seated $25 NL Ring, the blinds are .10 and .25.
I'm on the button with AQs of hearts.
I raise $1 I get four callers. The pot is now $4
The flop is 2d3dQc
SB bets$4
BB calls $4
I raise allin $15.95
SB folds
BB calls
Turn/River KsQd
We show down he has K9diamonds. I would have been all in regardless with the Queen on the river. But I asked how he could call my all in on the flop. He told me I was an idiot he had a 33%chance of winning go read a book.
My question is what book should I be reading? Thanks in advance this is a great resource.

Dave

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bigslikk

04-23-2006, 12:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

He is right. Flpping 4 diamonds (or any suit) to the flush leaves 9 outs (13 in a suit - 2 in ur hand - 2 on board = 9)

Leaving 2 cards - the turn and river- yet to be displayed, he does have a 1/3 chance of hitting a diamond at that point. I the turn was no diamond, then he would have less chance (im not sure chances at this point). But yeah he had 1/3 chance.

This being said- that kid was pretty lucky- u got a bad beat-
pot odds dictated that he had to pay 15.95 - ur bet- to win (16 + 4 + 8) = $30. he was gettin rough 2 to 1 payout and had 1/3 chance to win. Bad move but luck forgave him. Hope I helped

Edit: most books on holdem (at borders, library?) can give u basics like this. I recommend the book of bluffs later on its pretty good.

flyingPenguin

04-23-2006, 12:53 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Sydney

Posts: 193

You don't need a book for that kind of info. Just look around this site. There's a chart of odds here: http://www.flopturnriver.com/chart_pot_odds.html

He was correct that he had about a 1/3 chance of hitting (35%). To make it worthwhile he had to be paid three times his investment when he called you. He invested about $16, and the final pot was about $44. So he wasn't getting good enough odds for his bet.

You gave him bad odds, and you lost. Do that often enough though, and you will win in the long term.

davekp2003

04-23-2006, 01:47 PM

#4 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 81

that helped a lot. I guess i was wondering if I was right in terms of pot odds and wondering why I got called an idiot.

Thank you very much!

ecrujet

04-23-2006, 06:12 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 47

First post, i hope not too controversial.
I dont think BB played too bad. His first bet was probably his biggest mistake but if you or anyone called after him (he was in early position) it was a $12 pot for $4 (correct odds) and worth a punt now and then.
you then raised it to $15.95, he had already put in $4 so it was going to cost him $12 for $30 pot (2.5 to 1 odds) the money you put in a bet is no longer yours so he wasnt calling a $16 bet he was calling a $12 bet. Yes he wasnt getting correct odds the pot was $6 short but having put a fair chunk in already what would most people do in the heat of the moment, get out their calculators? I think you played correct he got lucky (but you gave him little choice) and it was not correct for him to call you an idiot, as he got it more wrong than you did. And by the way he had more chance than you of beating trips. I'm thinking that a $4 raise by SB was an enormous bet on a .10 .25 table and worthy of being trips but most likely two pair 2s and 3s as it would have only cost him .15 to see the flop(trips would have called)
Jim

Greedo017

04-23-2006, 06:35 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot

Posts: 1,461

He is actually wrong. He had a 45% chance of winning on the flop. He had his flush outs, but he also had 3 outs to his king. so he was right in that calling for him was fine, but he was wrong on his reasoning.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

Renton

04-23-2006, 06:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

This is one of those hands where the two people who took it to showdown played the hand just fine, and were (pot-equity wise) profiting off of the other players' dead money.

ecrujet

04-23-2006, 06:47 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 47

correct i missed that.
jim

Big Dazz

04-24-2006, 04:14 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Portsmouth, England

Posts: 45

Hi,

should the BB call the $4 bet on the turn??? I dont think he had the correct odds??

With $4 in the pot and another $4 bet by SB - thats $8 total. BB is getting 2:1 which is correct with 2 cards to come. But for NL game BB doesnt know there was going to be an all-in bet so he should have been making his calculations card by card - thats 5:1. Therefore to make his $4 flush draw call correct he needed $20 in the pot???

This is why Ive been advised to make a half pot bet to ruin drawing odds on the flop - is this correct??

Cheers

biondino

04-24-2006, 04:37 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Yes - ironically his call of our hero's all-in was a better bet than his call of SB's original flop bet.

Really what the villain should be considering here is how many of his outs might be dirty, because *that* factor alone makes his all-in call -EV in this instance. SB showed strength with his flop bet, and hero is showing considerable strength pushing over the top, so villain has to at least understand that Axd, two pair, or a set are all potentially out there and could fill up on the turn or river. He could even be drawing pretty much dead (only runner runner kings would give him the absolute nuts against any possible hand). That's why villain's play was poor.

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