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wonderland
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10-18-2008, 09:43 AM
Post subject: Flush odds?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
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hi
I found this cool page which condenses odds, quite handy:
http://www.planetstacked.com/holdem/odds/
I think i have a hole in my game. How should i play suited cards? Just looking at the odds, they're really poor plus i was going over my PT stats and noticed that my win rate in every aspect is awful with flushes. I make most of my money through straights and full houses.
So far i've been strict with my suited cards and only playing with Qs+ unless i have suited connectors. I will just limp as cheaply as possible.
I don't like flushes, only the worst fishes don't see a flush when it hits. So even when you do hit, you don't get paid.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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http://poker-odds.flopturnriver.com/
The problem with flushes is that they're obvious.
Qxs hands suck. I don't particularly care for Kx either. Especially if you're just playing to hit your hand.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Robb
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10-18-2008, 05:57 PM
Post subject: Re: Flush odds?
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wonderland
How should i play suited cards?
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Like they're not suited. Seriously, I still don't play sc's much. At the micros, just pick two cards that play well regardless of suit. If you happen to pick up a flush draw with a decent kicker, try to bet it hard. The third flush card on the board really kills your action.
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10-18-2008, 06:55 PM
Post subject: Re: Flush odds?
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#4 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wonderland
How should i play suited cards?
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Like they're not suited. Seriously, I still don't play sc's much. At the micros, just pick two cards that play well regardless of suit. If you happen to pick up a flush draw with a decent kicker, try to bet it hard. The third flush card on the board really kills your action. |
This is wrong, AJo is not playable UTG, but AJs is. Just imagine being suited as a boost in hand value to your lowest card. AJs is at least as good as AQo for playability. While sometimes you get outkicked, getting nut flushes compensates for that.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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SCs def have more value than their unsooted cousins. But I don't play them to hit a flush or straight. It's a nice bonus, esp when you can hit the straight vs someone who can't fold TPTK or 2 pr. But you gotta use them to steal pots as well from CO or Bu (esp the lower ones) as you're not gonna hit a made hand that's strong enough to SD enuff times to make it +EV.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Player(s) dependent as well as other factors ldo. Think about why you would want to play Qxs or SCs. Vs. what type of players would you elect to call. What types of players would you elect to 3bet. What position is best for Qxs. Why raising any Axs UTG is profitable in certain games. You can keep getting deeper and deeper with more questions.
Start figuring out the who, what, when and whys of playing these hands.
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wonderland
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
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i think i might just tighten the range up.
Go in with Ax suited because it's good to have an ace and it's a relaxing feeling when you get an ace high flush.... ah.. the nuts... phew...
I think i'll go in with a higher kicker and a Q or K so i can at least have some straight potential or non terrible kicker potential. Pick up small pots but every little helps.
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daven
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10-19-2008, 12:20 AM
Post subject: Re: Flush odds?
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#8 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wonderland
. So even when you do hit, you don't get paid.
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you're probably playing your draws wrong.
Also, don't limp Kxs and Qxs unless x is broadway. Raising in position is fine though.
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Robb
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10-19-2008, 11:17 AM
Post subject: Re: Flush odds?
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wonderland
How should i play suited cards?
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Like they're not suited. Seriously, I still don't play sc's much. At the micros, just pick two cards that play well regardless of suit. If you happen to pick up a flush draw with a decent kicker, try to bet it hard. The third flush card on the board really kills your action. |
This is wrong, AJo is not playable UTG, but AJs is. Just imagine being suited as a boost in hand value to your lowest card. AJs is at least as good as AQo for playability. |
Yeah, but he was talking about Kxs and Qxs and sc's. You can be a profitable player without even touching Kxs and Qxs (x<9) except in very specific blind stealing situations where you'd raise with almost any two.
Being suited only adds about 2% to the equity/strength of most hands. Like you point out, that only makes a minor difference in playability, like whether to open UTG or wait until MP. It doesn't turn a dog shi!t hand into gold.
Wonderland, you were talking about tightening up - that's a good idea. You talked about Axs - here's my advice. I play Axs from the BTN for steals and behind 1 or 2 limpers for a raise. I play A9s+ from the CO for a raise. I think of these hands as stealing hands. They have some value if I get called. If I get 3bet, I lay 'em down.
The reason I hardly ever limp them (though I do on rare occasions) is that the action dies when the flush hits. Here are some links you could check out.
Blindstealing 101 and Raising Behind Limpers by Spoonitnow. Great stuff about playing late position hands in unraised pots.
Here's one about set odds and flush odds for sc's, Playing pp's. Scroll to the end to read JeffreyGB's comments about sc's, though the entire thread is great discussion back and forth.
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