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flush flop - what to do with my set?

  
 
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MightyMarc
Old 12-06-2006, 02:48 PM     Post subject: flush flop - what to do with my set? #1 (permalink)  
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Second orbit at this table, no reads on opponents.

Some may state I should have raised my pair pre-flop since I was CO, but I never feel very comfortable raising pocket pairs lower than 99/TT so I decided just to limp in.

The flop showed cards I really didn't want to see but I didn't want to lay down my cards immediately. I thought about the chance of appr. 35% to improve my set and so take down a nice pot.

My question now is if I understood the concept of implied odds correctly?

Facing a c/r on the flop I thought that at least of one of the opponets had the flush and so I would have been able to stack him with an improved hand.

What would you have done in this situation?

No-Limit Hold'em, 0.05/0.1 $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($7.61)
UTG+1 ($11.90)
MP1 ($7.36)
MP2 ($2)
MP3 ($1.90)
Hero ($11.20)
Button ($12.82)
SB ($12.17)
BB ($10.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 7. SB posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.45) 7, K, 9 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $0.3, Hero calls $0.30, BB raises to $1, UTG calls $1, MP1 folds, Hero ?


Thank you in advance.
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thizzSantaCruz
Old 12-06-2006, 06:39 PM #2 (permalink)  
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This is an intersting question. I think I would probably call in this situation and watch the turn drop. If it pairs the board you are great, if it doesn't I might think you are still probably good. If the player flopped a flush he would not be raising and most likely would like to keep the pot multi-way. He could be sitting on a low flush and does not want to see another diamond drop. He also could be on a two pair.
Flopping quads and boats like its my job
 
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Iwind
Old 12-06-2006, 06:52 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Raise MP1's bet, if you are 3-bet on the flop by BB then, call unless the bet is huge, and you'll probably be paid off is board pairs I guess.
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Xanadu
Old 12-06-2006, 07:03 PM #4 (permalink)  
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A very interesting hand. And a tough situation actually. What you really fear here is that one opponent has a flush and the other has 2pair. If one has K9 and the other a flush, you are only about 10%, needing a 7 or for the river to pair the turn card. Having 2 opponents in makes this a murky situation and I am quite curious what the more experienced NL players think about this. I would say call since you close the action and will have position. The big question is what do you do facing a big turn bet? Even if you fill up you can't be very happy given the flop action.
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MightyMarc
Old 12-06-2006, 07:32 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwind
Raise MP1's bet...
My intention not to raise MP 1's bet was to get a cheap turn card because at this moment I was pretty sure that I would need some help and the chance to improve my set is appr. 15% from flop to turn (appr. 22% from turn to river).
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spoonitnow
Old 12-06-2006, 10:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 You played it fine, just call. Call a turn bet unimproved if you get odds for it.

No reason to overcomplicate this, it's 10nl.
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I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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TLR
Old 12-07-2006, 07:06 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Preflop: Limping is OK
Flop: I would reraise MP1's raise. Two players had already checked, the only made hand that makes any sense in checking is Axd, and even in that case I would bet it. So by the time the action got to you - check, check, bet by MP there is a decent chance you have the best hand - the one thing you dont want is a 4th diamond hitting, so reraise the flop.

As played the CR by BB is very troubling, I would call and hoep the board pairs


 
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LordDrg7
Old 12-07-2006, 07:11 AM #8 (permalink)  

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I raise too in that situation. I don't see a flush being played like this. Maybe someone's holding the Ad, but I don't see someone working a flush like that. In my opinion, it looks like you got one person drawing to a flush at worst, the other one's sitting on a king.

I'm raising to get what i see as a flush draw out, probably checking the turn to hope the king improves and raising a bet / betting the river. If either one calls another raise (or both do), I fold to a bet and let them go at it (unless the board pairs).
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MightyMarc
Old 12-07-2006, 12:39 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Thanks for your comments. When the turn card was dealt I decided not to change the gears since BB and UTG were stacking themselves and I didn't want to give them a reason to think about what was going on.

Hypothetical question:
I raise MP 1's bet to $ 1 and BB raises to $ x. How big can X be so that I still have the (implied) odds to call the raise? About $2.00 - 2.50 ? Is there a change if UTG calls BB's raise since the effective stack now is smaller?



No-Limit Hold'em, $ 0.05/0.1 BB (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 7. SB posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.45) 7, K, 9 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $0.3, Hero calls $0.30, BB raises to $1, UTG calls $1, MP1 folds, Hero calls $0.70.

Turn: ($3.75) 7 (3 players)
BB bets $2, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2.

River: ($9.75) 4 (3 players)
BB bets $5, UTG calls $4.61 (All-In), Hero raises to $8.20 (All-In), BB calls $2.15 (All-In).

Final Pot: $ 28.01
$1.05 from side pot #2
$4.83 from side pot #1
$22.13 from the main pot

Results:
BB shows [ Ad, 2d ]a flush, Ace high.
UTG shows [ Qd, 4d ]a flush, King high.
Hero shows [ 7c, 7h ]four of a kind, Sevens.
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TLR
Old 12-07-2006, 01:34 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Hypothetical question:
I raise MP 1's bet to $ 1 and BB raises to $ x. How big can X be so that I still have the (implied) odds to call the raise? About $2.00 - 2.50 ? Is there a change if UTG calls BB's raise since the effective stack now is smaller?
There are different variables that affect the decision, but the logic is the following:
Assuming MP1 folds, and assuming we are behind and BB has a made flush:
You have 7 outs (14% to improve) on the turn and 10 outs (20% to improve) by the river after the turn.
Assuming he will call your push if you hit then
0.35*(min(your stack, his stack) + current pot) > min(your stack, his stack) to be correct.
Alternatively assuming his raise is X, if X < 0.14(current pot) you should also call
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