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Percival
Old 07-07-2007, 07:11 AM     Post subject: flush draw #1 (permalink)  

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What would be the best way to play a flush draw out of position against one player that has made a pot sized bet on the flop? Here is an example...

I limp in w/ A5s, person to my left calls, folds around to blinds who call and checks. Flop comes J 8 2 with 2 cards of my suit. Pot is $1.75. I check, person to my left bets $2.

If I call then I am usually facing another bet on the turn unless I hit my suit and trap. If I raise, then I am not sure what to do on the turn if I don't hit.

How should this be played?
"If I am in the impossible business, and I am, then I want to go beyond the impossible." David Copperfield
 
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BeeJall
Old 07-07-2007, 08:17 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Fold.

You definitely aren't getting the right price to draw to your flush.
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Percival
Old 07-07-2007, 08:36 AM #3 (permalink)  

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Percival
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeJall
Fold.

You definitely aren't getting the right price to draw to your flush.
Is there any way to play this though to get the right price?
"If I am in the impossible business, and I am, then I want to go beyond the impossible." David Copperfield
 
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Random_Hero
Old 07-07-2007, 10:28 AM #4 (permalink)  
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The odds of hitting your flush are 4/1 so you need around 3/1 pot odds to play for the flush (3/1 taking into account implied odds)

so villain would have to have bet around half the pot for you to be able to call with correct odds.
 
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sejje
Old 07-07-2007, 04:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percival
Is there any way to play this though to get the right price?
Probably not, but there's better ways to play the hand. Like raising when you're first into the pot preflop. Mucking A5s is fine as well.

As played preflop, I bet the flop. If he raises, then we've got a different situation to consider.

As played, I usually fold. But these people are underestimating implied odds. If that guy'll stack off when you hit, there's nothing wrong with calling.
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Pelion
Old 07-07-2007, 07:43 PM #6 (permalink)  
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For some people a big bet like this is a HUGE hand. If that is the case then you can call and get at least $10 in over the course of 2 streets.

You probably cant call a PSB on the turn though.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

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bigspenda73
Old 07-07-2007, 08:00 PM #7 (permalink)  
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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
 Um you guys are silly, why are you not leading this flop?

Im not folding to the flop bet assuming 100bb effective stacks. You have plenty implied odds to a bet like this and the pot is still very small.
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Miffed22001
Old 07-08-2007, 02:50 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 lead the flop...
very few players will raise the flop behind you with a monster hand.
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Chopper
Old 07-08-2007, 03:50 AM #9 (permalink)  
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i completely disagree...mathematically speaking. flushes are the easiest things to see when they hit...low stakes players LOVE them...and they dont pay as well as people think.

dont get me too wrong, they do pay, but with aggression by YOU.

but, you asked for the best way to play the hand oop...FOLD. you are not getting anywhere close to pot odds to call here...and you WILL get another bet in your face if you check the turn when you miss.

if villain bets pot, you call...you miss. you check, villain bets pot again, you call...you HIT. now what? do you lead out? how much? you have to lead a bucketload to make the impied odds pay off. if you check, looking for a check-raise, you get checked behind most of the time...these days. its too easy to see the flush.

when you lead the river, and you should, if you get called, you barely made it worth the chase since you were paying such a bad price to hit your flush. your best hope is to get raised...and that hardly ever happens when your villain is sober.

if you want to play it oop for any profit, you need to semi-bluff the flop by leading out. and pretty big. then, check when the flush hits if it hits the turn...selling that you had TP and are afraid of the flush...and hope villain takes the bait.

best advice: DONT PLAY THOSE DRAWS OOP AND INTO AGGRESSION.

except on the most passive of tables.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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CrackingYou
Old 07-10-2007, 03:33 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percival
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeJall
Fold.

You definitely aren't getting the right price to draw to your flush.
Is there any way to play this though to get the right price?
Depends. Did everyone fold after his $2 bet? If so, odds go up. He had NUT FLUSH draw and he also had A possibilities.

If I was in that situation, assuming everyone folded around back to you, and my stack was in good shape/average, I check raise and represent the best hand. Why? Because a bet of that size, to me, says get out of the pot I have the best two whole cards or that I paired low card and am trying to take the pot down right now. I think he was weak. A limp + that flop + that bet=bullshit hand.

So, like I said, check raise. Turn comes, Maybe you hit your A, maybe you hit your flush, maybe you don't but a card comes that changes the hand possibilities. So I will then lead out, even if I hit my A or flush. Now if he raises and I didn't hit my A or flush, then I will 9 times out of ten fold to his raise.

Again, this is my opinion/viewpoint. I
Feels like I'm climbing in a tree.
 
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SHAKE
Old 07-12-2007, 08:14 PM #11 (permalink)  
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say it with me

REVERSE

IMPLIED

ODDS.

ty
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Chopper
Old 07-12-2007, 09:05 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAKE
say it with me

REVERSE

IMPLIED

ODDS.

ty
swiper, no swiping...swiper, no swiping...swiper, NOOOO swiping!!

...oh, maaaaaann (snaps fingers).
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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