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Flopping a set and extracting value OOP (10NL)

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Nakamura

07-07-2009, 11:14 PM Post subject: Flopping a set and extracting value OOP (10NL)

#1 (permalink)

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Nakamura is an unknown quantity at this point

Villain is a tagg player running at 14/9 over 40 hands. She has cbet one or two flops before this. I couldn't remember what she did after c-betting the flop previously.

I sort of feel like I'm flipping my cards face up after my flop line. Is it betting the turn or river here better than checking?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($15.95)
UTG+1 ($12.70)
MP1 ($4)
MP2 ($2)
CO ($5.50)
Button ($9.35)
SB ($11)
Hero (BB) ($20.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8

, 8

UTG bets $0.40, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.40, 1 fold, CO calls $0.40, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.65) 3

, A

, 8

(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.40, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.40

Turn: ($4.45) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($4.45) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

Total pot: $4.45 | Rake: $0.20

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Micro2Macro

07-07-2009, 11:17 PM

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If villain checks back the turn definately fire river

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swiggidy

07-07-2009, 11:38 PM

#3 (permalink)

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[ ] you extract value by checking

If he has an A he's betting turn so checking is fine. He'll probably fold to your river bet, whatever. That's why you need more than 8:1 to set hunt. Your hand isn't face-up, it looks like you have an A. So if he doesn't have an A you won't win much.

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TonyB73

07-07-2009, 11:44 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I think you need to plan more from the flop.

You can either donk the flop or check it. If you choose to check, then she's done exactly what you wanted her to by cbetting, so what was your plan for that? If it was to call her cbet, what was your plan after that to get more money in?

Do you have an AF stat for her? Because as usual I think the right line depends on what sort of player she is post-flop.

If you think shes aggro and able to fire 2/3 barrels with top pair type hands, you can probably afford to check/call a street or two (maybe c/r the second one). If she's more passive than that, you need to fire out. Even on a super dry board like this, non-aggro-monkey players at these stakes will generally call with a much wider range than they'll bet with, so thats by far your best chance of getting her chips in the middle.

Nakamura

07-08-2009, 12:07 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyB73

AF on flop = 2, there was no stat for AF on the turn, which I'm not too sure what it means.

07-08-2009, 12:48 AM

#6 (permalink)

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fire river close to pot

spoonitnow

07-08-2009, 02:07 AM

#7 (permalink)

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I think on page 42 of Theory of Poker Sklansky suggests that checking followed by calling then checking twice is the optimal post-flop value line with a set.

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surviva316

07-08-2009, 04:04 AM

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surviva316 will become famous soon enough

once she PFR's and cbets a dry A-high flop in a 4-way pot her range is like AJ, AQ, AK, AA for a standard TAgg player. (that obviously didn't end up being the case based on how the hand played out, but it's going to be the case the vast majority of the time). when you think of it that way, i think it should be much easier to figure out how to play this hand.

c/r flop > than c/c flop and c/r turn because the latter line is like "oh hai, i gotta set, and your AK is no good" whereas players are much more likely to think that their cbet is just getting played back at if you c/r flop.

c/c flop c/c turn certainly disguises our hand but mainly because it's a ghey way to play a set. it assumes a lot from our villain in order to be effective, it gives the board an opportunity to scare our opponent away from value, and it puts us in a tough spot for extracting value on the river (surely we don't wanna c/c again).

anyway, my assumptions about villain's range was completely wrong in this instance anyway, and villain is probably just a cbetting monkey shit, so as played bet river.

PS: not to sound sexist or anything, but since when do we refer to villains as she?

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bjsaust

07-08-2009, 04:19 AM

#9 (permalink)

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You're OOP. If you must slowplay a set, do it IP. Just c/r the flop and do a lot of betting and raising. As played you're just turning a set into some kind of bluff catching hand.

Quote:

PS: not to sound sexist or anything, but since when do we refer to villains as she?

I refer to any villain with a female avatar or feminine name as she. Its probably more sexist to refer to all villains as he

Just playing to improve.

07-08-2009, 08:28 AM

#10 (permalink)

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it depends on the opponent, bjsaust
against some people I'll c/c flop, turn and c/r river AI because they'll tilt barrel me

bjsaust

07-08-2009, 09:00 AM

#11 (permalink)

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If you have reads sure, this opponent is basically unknown.

Just playing to improve.

Nakamura

07-08-2009, 09:50 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by surviva316

anyway, my assumptions about villain's range was completely wrong in this instance anyway, and villain is probably just a cbetting monkey shit, so as played bet river.

No, your assumption was right. I think the mistake here was not either CR the flop or betting the river ... but I am learning.

Lucothefish

07-08-2009, 10:10 AM

#13 (permalink)

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As Oskar once said:

For the love of christ, bet!

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spoonitnow

07-08-2009, 03:08 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

You're OOP. If you must slowplay a set, do it IP. Just c/r the flop and do a lot of betting and raising. As played you're just turning a set into some kind of bluff catching hand.

Quote:

PS: not to sound sexist or anything, but since when do we refer to villains as she?

I refer to any villain with a female avatar or feminine name as she. Its probably more sexist to refer to all villains as he

I refer to all of my Villains as bitch so idk.

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