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Borax
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03-08-2005, 11:04 AM
Post subject: Flopping a K with QQ
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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You get QQ in MP, raise 4xBB and get two callers, one in EP and one in LP.
Flop comes (2 6 K) rainbow and EP bets the pot. Is there any reason at all not to lay down your Q's at this point?
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sykotik489
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 99
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I don't really see one, if your raise got called its very likely that it was by someone holding AK or KK. The only way I see calling this is if you have a read on the raiser and you think he might semi bluff with JJ to see if anyone caught the king. Also depending on the level of competition and their poker savvy you could be against two pair also. Thats remote but definitly possible on sites like PP.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Yeah, let this go. Over time this call would cost you money. QQ's a winning hand enough of the time to not bother losing money on questionable situations.
- Jeffrey
(Special note: I've made more money per hand [over $2.50 playing mostly at NL .10/.25] with QQ than any other hand, if that's relevent)
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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That can change based on reads of the EP player, obviously.
Ex. I was playing in a game last night where the guy to my right would bet the pot on any flop that had no preflop raising (and half the time he'd pf raise if no one else did). I know that's different than this situation, but I ended up taking a good $15 - $20 off of him because I picked up on this and used it against him.
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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The hand that made me post this question ended like this:
I folded to the pot bet on the flop from EP and LP called. Turn and River gave nothing and they kept betting hard and calling. Then EP showed T9s and LP showed Q6s, no flush draws. LP won with a pair of sixes. So I folded to a stupid bluff. I had no read at that time, but I now have two bluffers on my list 
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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What if you are in EP with QQ. Raise 4x, get two callers. Flop 2 6 K. Are you going to open with a pot-sized bet? Minibet? Check?
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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I would bet half pot then I think.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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facing a bet and an over-card, playing it safe with QQ is a good line. Though, since you raised preflop. You could take your shot at repping AK. But that will get expensive quickly.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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BigmacAg
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 29
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Since you were the initial pre-flop raiser, I would rep TPTK and re-raise. Like 'rilla said it could get expensive, but I would raise here to get information on how much EP liked his hand. If nothing else it could slow down his betting. If he checks the turn to me I'm raising again.
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<Buaidh no Bas>
Victory or Death
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
What if you are in EP with QQ. Raise 4x, get two callers. Flop 2 6 K. Are you going to open with a pot-sized bet? Minibet? Check?
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No just check and give it up. You goal is to win money over time and QQ is gonna win you money over time, but not in this situation. Now if you check and they check around it gets a little more tricky but you can usually assume your ahead at that point.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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this happened to me three times yesterday. had qq twice and kk once, all three times an a came on the flop and i got a strong better before me, and i laid them down. come showdown they all had a strong ace, if i was betting at it i would've been flushing money away. its especially tough with kk but what you gonna do.
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redih
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cumberland, Maryland
Posts: 53
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I sometimes throw in a min bet, if they call I got a cheap card and maybe a decent read. Then I can go into check/fold mode if they re-bet a lot. Other than that if I face just a regular raise, it's fold time. More often than not they aren't bluffing, or will river you.
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Trust your parachute.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by redih
...or will river you.
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Never fold in fear that someone will catch a miracle card on the river. It's all about the odds of something happening, so this shouldn't enter into your decision.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by redih
...if I face just a regular raise, it's fold time. More often than not they aren't bluffing
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Agreed that more often than not they aren't bluffing. Usually if you're the preflop raiser, they'll be scared of you hitting that A or K. If they're betting into you either they read you amazingly well, or they actually have it, or they're a bluff crazy idiot. Those last ones are rare and should be added to any lists you care to maintain once you had a read on them.
- Jeffrey
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