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Keith
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01-27-2009, 11:42 PM
Post subject: flopped king high flush
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($2.12)
SB ($4.96)
BB ($4.84)
UTG ($2.06)
UTG+1 ($5)
Hero (MP1) ($2.63)
MP2 ($1.54)
MP3 ($2.83)
CO ($3.76)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K , J
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.04, 3 folds, Button raises to $0.14, 1 fold, BB calls $0.12, UTG calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.57) 2, 7, 8 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.54, Button raises to $1.98 (All-In), BB calls $1.98, 1 fold, Hero ???
even with an all in and a caller in front of me is this an easy all in as well?. BB was running 64/0/1.8 over 36 hands and button was 33/22/2 over 9 hands.
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Illfavor
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
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I wish I had your problems at the tables...
I'm never considering folding here.
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Ich grolle nicht...
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hangchiong
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 359
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Why did we min raise MP?This does not closed down the action pretty well.Leaving us OOP easily.or is this a misclick?
Money in ->>>>
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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I don't like the min-raise, but calling $0.10 with KJs into a $0.44 pot is nice. It's a perfect pot for a drawy hand.
The flop play is uber-standard. I love the pot open. 
And I don't want to be results oriented, 'cause getting it AI here is the perfect play. But please tell me you won this hand.
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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went all in to find BB called. Button had QQ and BB had Ad3d. Just wanted to check that I got my money in right. Its a bit annoying at the moment im getting up a buyin most nights now only to lose it when I get stacked having got the money in right
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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1. why the min raise?
2. ship it
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Don't dwell on the loss. Getting it all with the 2nd nut is always a winning play. You can't be afraid of the monsters under the bed, but man it sucks when it inevitably happens.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keith_MM
Just wanted to check that I got my money in right.
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Quote:
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went all in to find BB called. Button had QQ and BB had Ad3d.
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sounds like you didn't
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Airles™
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 317
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
The solution to getting 1 outered is a simple one. We just need to find the site that is the least rigged.
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texa8
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 207
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i dont like ur min raise PF but as played i get it in too... although with all in and call already, folding wouldnt be a big mistake IMO
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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guys his opponent has Ad3d, why do you want him to go all-in?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Seriously, look at pokerstove, we're a 99.9% underdog
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
990 games 0.031 secs 31,935 games/sec
Board: 7d 8d 2d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 99.899% 99.90% 00.00% 989 0.00 { Ad3d }
Hand 1: 00.101% 00.10% 00.00% 1 0.00 { KdJd }
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Mods shouldn't level. It's intimidating.
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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i believe the correct terminology is a cooler....
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Not a cooler at all. He was dominated pre-flop, and out-flopped by the nuts.
A cooler is a card that hits the turn or river that reduces your equity in the hand, like flopping a low flush only to have a four flush hit the board. Or 4 to a straight and you hold a set.
Obviously different from a suckout that turns your winning hand into a losing hand.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
A cooler is a card that hits the turn or river that reduces your equity in the hand, like flopping a low flush only to have a four flush hit the board. Or 4 to a straight and you hold a set.
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No, a cooler is anyhand you're not getting away from that you lose. KK vs AA pre is a cooler. Set under set is a cooler. If he had raised properly pre then bet/called the flop it would easily be a cooler.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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BAD MOD
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"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
A cooler is a card that hits the turn or river that reduces your equity in the hand, like flopping a low flush only to have a four flush hit the board. Or 4 to a straight and you hold a set.
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No, a cooler is anyhand you're not getting away from that you lose. KK vs AA pre is a cooler. Set under set is a cooler. If he had raised properly pre then bet/called the flop it would easily be a cooler. |
I've never heard it explained like that before. I would describe that as a 'cold deck' when you have a premium hand that is already dominated, not a cooler, but what do I know?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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kb coolman, swiggidy is correct, a cooler in an unavoidable situation where two strong hands are pitted against one another.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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I will now take my punishment.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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cold-deck is the same thing
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
I will now take my punishment.
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Paging BigRed...
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Seriously, look at pokerstove, we're a 99.9% underdog
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
990 games 0.031 secs 31,935 games/sec
Board: 7d 8d 2d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 99.899% 99.90% 00.00% 989 0.00 { Ad3d }
Hand 1: 00.101% 00.10% 00.00% 1 0.00 { KdJd }
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I don't want this to come across as attadcking Spenda, I just want to sort out what I should have been thinking when I was faced withthe decision as to whether to call or not.
I have to admit I'm a little surprised at Spenda's replies focussing on the result and the villains actual cards as opposed to the range that I was putting them on and playing them on. If he was playing with his cards turned up as you pokerstoved it,its an obvious fold with my only way to win (i think) being 9dTd by the river for straight flush.Is this virtually the classic case way ahead way behind situation you were asking for examples of in the other thread.
From the Buttons preflop reraise I had him on a high pocket pair or he might have thought my preflop raise was weak and his flop shove i thought was him trying to price out any flush draws and protect his hand.
The preflop raise I played badly, I had raised several of the hands before this one and I think my stats at the time were running something like 33/23 and I was conscious of being MP with people to act behind me so I was betting it so that I could dump the hand if there was a significant raise and/or reraise behind me. Once it came back round to me I was thinking that it was only 0.1 into roughly a 40 cent pot that I could either flop big or fold if I missed.I will look when i get home tonight what I'd done in the couple of hands before this one.
The BB had been playing pretty passively and calling a lot of raises preflop and on the flop. With his 67/0 i had him on a pretty wide range preflop and when he called the all in I thought he could be on high pocket pair,two pair, flush , flush draw or a set.
In effect the only hand I really needed to worry about were ones with Ad in them 1in 47 chance of that and if he had the Ad then a (6/46)*(1/47)=0.002 chance of flopping or drawing the better flush.
Ive been playing with poker stove trying to incorporate Ad+ one other,suited diamonds ,pocket pairs etc all into one range and it didn't like what I was putting in.
I still think I was right to get my money in as I feel that most of the time I was beating the opponents ranges but not sure if I'm thinking right.
Havent had a chance to look at any responses in the last 5 hours or so as ive been working and in meetings,so apologies if some of this has already been covered.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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You played it right. Spenda was levelling you.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I thought I was being leveled
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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BAD MOD.
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Erpel
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 605
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With regards to coolers and cold decks it's just not so clearcut.
In normal everyday use cooler and cold-decked is used almost interchangably. In an actual cold deck the deck is stacked intentionally in a way that encourages the players to play a big pot with a pre-determined outcome. In normal usage it refers to the situations where the cards by chance happen to fall in a way that generates a big pot with both parties making the correct decisions.
Unfortunately, Dan Harrington is considered something of an authority on things poker and steps into the breach with a different definition of cooler. Harrington on Cash describes a cooler much as it is described in this thread also - as a card on a subsequent street that 'cools' the action. So where betting might have considered furiously on a blank (maybe in a cold deck situation) and created a big pot the 'cooler' card causes the street to be checked and/or folded rather than bet and/or raised.
While this completes the explanation, I think it will confuse everyone to discuss cooler cards according to the Harrington definition - it's best to just use cooler to describe a situation with something that looks like a cold deck, but which is actually an unintentional cold deck.
I think most famously Daniel Negreanu on HSP season 1 made a call with a full house into Gus Hansen's quads with a shrug and the words: "If I lose this hand it's a cooler."
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